• Relentless is officially banned!



    http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/sword...nd-relentless/

    Hi Dice Masters Fans!

    It’s come to our attention that a number of quick aggro strategies have been using the Global Ability on the cards Swords of Revealing Light and Relentless to such an extent that it is making the game not fun. In particular, some games have been ending turn 3 without players having a chance to participate in the game. We have solutions in the R&D pipeline but we’d prefer to not let events between then and now be corrupted by this issue. We’ll be temporarily banning Swords of Revealing Light and Relentless effective May 1st. We’ll evaluate the need to maintain the ban as new cards are released, and the ban may not last through the end of the year.

    We appreciate everyone’s continued love and support of Dice Masters.

    -Mike and Eric
    Looks like a (very reasonable) response to Bard Blitz and such. Since the Global is a "cannot" effect, and it is triggered by the active player, there is basically nothing the inactive player can do against it to stop a T3 Kill. This is a good move by Wizkids, and it's also worth noting that it isn't a permanent ban, but a temporary one. Maybe there will be a response coming out in a future set?
    Comments 18 Comments
    1. Zauriel's Avatar
      Zauriel -
      Well done Ottawa dice masters clan!
      I'm so happy to have witnessed the catalyst for the very first ban hammer in DM!
    1. Stormyknight's Avatar
      Stormyknight -
      "To Mitigate the turn 3 wins r&d has come up with a solution that the starting life total will now be 40" just kidding haha
    1. gkpon66's Avatar
      gkpon66 -
      Just when life gain teams were about to become viable!
    1. KennedyHawk's Avatar
      KennedyHawk -
      A bit disappointed in this.

      There are actually counters to relentless (such as Human Paladin and your own Miri to bring in blockers).

      My guess wouldn't be that there is an answer coming out in a future set but possibly that after this temporary ban they will just rotate out some cards.

      Bit of a bummer for teams that used relentless but weren't hyper aggro.
    1. flight602's Avatar
      flight602 -
      The problem with the Bard deck though was spray, if you didn't have a helmet on your paladin he couldn't stop relentless. Not to mention trying to have him out by turn 3
    1. Razorback's Avatar
      Razorback -
      I don't play with relentless, but it bugs me when cards are banned. I would have rather they issued an errata for the global- "Target character cannot block unless owner pays one life."
    1. KennedyHawk's Avatar
      KennedyHawk -
      Quote Originally Posted by flight602 View Post
      The problem with the Bard deck though was spray, if you didn't have a helmet on your paladin he couldn't stop relentless. Not to mention trying to have him out by turn 3
      I'd disagree.

      Yes people have been saying that since the beginning. "Well if you have a paladin they will just spray turn 4."

      Well then you can get a Constantine Anti-hero out turn 4 and re-roll their spray. Relentless wasn't the problem with Bard Blitz, uncapped bonuses is what does it. The same problem occurs in a ton of games with uncapped bonuses or discounts. Making things free, or provide X ammount of power is generally bad for a game. This is just a different global being smacked because other cards weren't created in a reasonable power scope.
    1. jigsawhc's Avatar
      jigsawhc -
      Personally I like this temporary ban. Bard Blitz/Guy Rush teams are still usable but opponents get at least a chance to defend turn 3
    1. KennedyHawk's Avatar
      KennedyHawk -
      Quote Originally Posted by jigsawhc View Post
      Personally I like this temporary ban. Bard Blitz/Guy Rush teams are still usable but opponents get at least a chance to defend turn 3
      It hurts the bard more than Guy.

      Guy can just grab a T3 spider and nom nom nom all the sidekicks. Bard can bring the spider too but takes a bit more work.
    1. zeon20's Avatar
      zeon20 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Razorback View Post
      I don't play with relentless, but it bugs me when cards are banned. I would have rather they issued an errata for the global- "Target character cannot block unless owner pays one life."
      I think one of the new BACs from civil war has that global lol
    1. Stormyknight's Avatar
      Stormyknight -
      The good thing about guy Rush is the inconsistently of turn 3 wins. If they have blockers now you need spider and 3 guys to win on turn 3 IF they don't have mera global.
    1. flight602's Avatar
      flight602 -
      Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
      I'd disagree.

      Yes people have been saying that since the beginning. "Well if you have a paladin they will just spray turn 4."

      Well then you can get a Constantine Anti-hero out turn 4 and re-roll their spray. Relentless wasn't the problem with Bard Blitz, uncapped bonuses is what does it. The same problem occurs in a ton of games with uncapped bonuses or discounts. Making things free, or provide X ammount of power is generally bad for a game. This is just a different global being smacked because other cards weren't created in a reasonable power scope.
      I agree that relentless wasn't the problem wholeheartedly, but as a quick fix for the upcoming WKOs, I think this works. I was dreading facing Bard teams with my control deck, even to the point of maybe giving it up and running a Bard deck myself. Yes I could maybe build a deck to beat Bard, but can it beat anything else? Anyway, I do hope they errata Bard and Guy in the future rather than ban things like relentless. I'm still amazed they felt Vulture needed to be nerfed but not Bard and Guy
    1. The0retico's Avatar
      The0retico -
      Ehm, if a team wanted to win on turn 3 through sidekicks, there are still a lot of ways to do so. Relentless as late game win condition has been around for quite some time and players have figured out counters to it. So what is the point of banning it?
    1. Randy's Avatar
      Randy -
      Quote Originally Posted by The0retico View Post
      Ehm, if a team wanted to win on turn 3 through sidekicks, there are still a lot of ways to do so. Relentless as late game win condition has been around for quite some time and players have figured out counters to it. So what is the point of banning it?
      My thoughts exactly. I know of at least one turn 3 win in the Swiss rounds of U.S. Nationals last year and another in Top 4 of Canadian Nationals last year. Both were on a big stage, and neither used Relentless global. If the problem really is that they don't want people ending the game before their opponent gets to their 3rd turn, they are going after the wrong card.

      If Relentless was out of control, limit it to "once per turn."
    1. KennedyHawk's Avatar
      KennedyHawk -
      Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
      My thoughts exactly. I know of at least one turn 3 win in the Swiss rounds of U.S. Nationals last year and another in Top 4 of Canadian Nationals last year. Both were on a big stage, and neither used Relentless global. If the problem really is that they don't want people ending the game before their opponent gets to their 3rd turn, they are going after the wrong card.

      If Relentless was out of control, limit it to "once per turn."
      Well said @Randy .
    1. themadking's Avatar
      themadking -
      As much as I like the aggro teams getting hit like that, I gotta say I'd have to agree with the fact that Relentless isn't the problem. It's 'easier' to deal with Guy/Bard teams BUT they still attack with huge numbers. Soon as you got no blockers, they all still coming at you.


      Certainly gives us breathing room for now.
    1. Jwannabe's Avatar
      Jwannabe -
      :aou73: I used the common Wasp a few times against a friend that put relentless on every team. I've never seen anyone else use her. There are ways around every card. I'm just sad that people haven't dug for answers.

      Now to prepare for poly teams instead. My extra jinzo has increased in value again.
    1. Zephernaut's Avatar
      Zephernaut -
      at the last PDC event I attended, over half the teams were Bard Blitz teams. I understand wanting to win, but everyone running the same deck because it is just THAT strong does not make a game fun. A temporary ban was the right call to increase the variety of decks and make the game more fun for the other people who don't want to do mirror matches all day.

      as far as an errata goes, changing Bard to only give an attack bonus, not a defense bonus would make him much less of a threat since when you CAN block, you could at least exchange characters. That seems much more in line with the power level of other decks.