• Our Community

    You’ll notice the new handle that this post is written under. We need to be clear - this comes not from any one of us but from all of us. The full TRP team would like to speak.

    When we write reports from tournaments, large and small, and when other users share similar stories on the blog, one common thread continues to come up: The strength of the community. Again and again, the community of Dice Masters players is an asset that keeps people coming back despite any extraneous issues.

    We mention this for a reason. In the weeks since Origins, a not insignificant piece of the group has turned a bit toxic. Aspects of game rules, tournament rules, and other in- and out-of-game discussions have turned from potentially productive conversations to personal mudslinging. Many players have been disparaged and belittled, as groups and as individuals. The company that produces the game has been thrown under the bus rather than approached with constructive criticism. The legitimacy of tournament victory and placements have been questioned, as well as the morality of the players involved. In essence, the community is not showing its strength. We cannot allow that to happen.

    This does point to a larger problem in general, not unique to Dice Masters, of emotional charge ruling action rather than reason.

    Over time, many players have also mentioned their distaste for actions and attitudes that some take in other games. In this game, they have found refuge from the types of players that have found elsewhere. There’s been the idea that Dice Masters is different. This has often been true. But it will not continue to be - not if you take it for granted. Not if you are bystanders.

    We urge you - do not let this community fall prey to the same attitudes. Through maintenance of this site, we are in a position where we are sometimes required to act on behalf of the community to deal with destructive behavior. While there are things that we can do to that end, it really falls to every one of us to do our part. Tilt happens in conversations as well as games and when you find yourself producing names and insults, it may be time to take a break. If others do so, that's where the "report" button comes in.

    We’d also like to take this chance to pull back the veil a bit so that you understand our moderation process...


    What happens when we moderate?

    Threads get out of hand. Users say things they shouldn’t. Who makes these calls?

    All of us. A decision is never made by a single member of the mod team. Even if a thread is locked or a post removed on the spot to keep something from getting out of hand, it is still reported to and reviewed by the full team. This is the same regardless of who the moderator or admin is. Surprisingly or not, we consider ourselves to be of relatively equal standing and make sure to check and balance.

    For more involved situations, we all communicate with one another as soon as a problem is noticed. When discussing any bans or suspensions, anyone too close to the situation recuses themselves. While this is a private message board and we are not bound to anyone other than ourselves, we nonetheless take a strong stand on a fair and equitable process. We couldn’t maintain trust with any users if we didn’t.

    When a user hits the report button, the staffer that notices the report brings it to the attention of the team. Discussion similar to the above is had and any necessary action is taken, with the staffer that owns the issue posting in the report thread that the item was cleared.


    Why do we do these things in this way?

    It would certainly be easy to act on our own. That would be disingenuous, though. We don’t consider ourselves to be bigger than any other part of the community. We simply take our mission (as stated in the rules post here) seriously - “We want to maintain a constructive and fun atmosphere for talking about the game. We favor fun and intelligent conversation about Dice Masters!”

    Actions that we take are done in that spirit. Rules that we put in place are intended to support that mission.

    This is not a place to judge. This is not a place for rage. This is not a place for venting or inflammatory speech. This is a place to highlight the strength of the community and it’s players, to be constructive and not destructive, and that is a task that we can only accomplish together.

    Often frustrations and concerns can be valid and they ought to be expressed. But we will continue to choose to only allow those that are done so by following the rules. It's not about rainbows and unicorns. It's about maintaining an inviting atmosphere

    As we said at least one other time, “And if you're not on that boat, you're free to discuss things elsewhere.”


    A few final informational items:

    1. The rules are and have always been in public view and the rules post is bumped if/when modifications are made. Any user saying they didn’t know what they were - now you do, and ignorance of them is not an excuse for breaking them.

    2. The comment section in a recent article was removed rather than locked simply because we are less familiar with comment moderation vs. forum moderation. They are slightly different and we couldn’t figure out how to lock them without removing the section. It was more important that the situation be dealt with immediately.

    Once we got that ironed out, the comments were restored within about an hour. Today we saw users complaining in public about the removal, but the problem was explained at the time in an editor comment in the attached article by Shadowmeld. Put simply, we goofed and it took us some time to figure out how to get the result we wanted.

    3. Be excellent to one another.


    Sincerely,

    The TRP Team
    Comments 31 Comments
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Site has rules against calling people out, but if you've paid any attention to the community activity in the past couple of days you'd know who the "toxic aspect" is referring to - so doesn't this post blatantly break the site's rules?

      Also claims the site is partially about creating intelligent discussion, yet the person who brought up precedence in the rules for not allowing IDs gets banned. Then gets labeled as toxic by this very post. Something seems off here. I'm not going to address "fun" because "fun" is subjective. But to me the fact that you found this drivel to be front page worthy is an act of the TRP staff cannibalizing the community. You're actively making the community look bad by vaguely calling out parts of it you disagree with and making that a news article. YOUR FRONT PAGE IS YOU ATTACKING THE COMMUNITY. Let me reiterate - YOU ARE CALLING PEOPLE OUT ON THE FRONT PAGE AFTER BANNING SAID PERSON FOR CALLING YOU OUT. This sort of hypocrisy is insulting to the community at large. If you're not going to respect the dice masters community, or even your own community on this site, at least respect the game enough to not try shaming people for having a difference of opinion in such a public way. If anything is going to make people not want to partake in this community and game it's staff decisions like making this a front page post.
    1. RainCityJenna's Avatar
      RainCityJenna -
      As a moderator on a much smaller scale on a facebook DM group. I can relate to having things reported tome all the time, and having to make the best choice you can for the community. This post reads nothing about attacking the community to me, and feels like trying to have an open door policy when it comes to moderation.

      When it comes to a game that we all love, sometimes we tend to overreact or get heated when it's not the best for the community at large. The reality of it is that, certain things that are discussed aren't appropriate, and moderation is needed. When a player comes on and only sees negativity, it isn't helping anyone, and can turn people away from wanting to participate in a great community, so as a moderator on another forum, I fully support the decision to end volatile conversations that serve no purpose but to be negative. It's one thing to have constructive conversations, and to suggest ways to improve game play. But this isn't what was happening.

      I can tell you from participating in Nats and Worlds is that we have a lot of amazing players that want nothing more than to see this game and community grow. But when I see this kinda stuff, players being treated like they are some common hooligan, and questioning their morality, it makes me upset, because I played next to these amazing people, and have so much respect for all of them.

      My goodness people, let's please realize for a minute that it's a game. Yes, I play to win, just like anyone else playing competitively. But I wouldn't think for one minute to disrespect my fellow players in such a way. I may not like all of them, I may not agree with all of them, but I sure as heck respect them, and I hope I would get the same.

      That's what this needs to come down to, it's not about freedom of speech, and being able to share your own opinion at all costs. It won't always be rainbows and puppy dogs, but sometimes, certain opinions aren't healthy for anyone to hear, or even close to being okay to say, especially when their only intent was to make others feel bad and it's up to the people at TRP to recognize when that is happening. I trust them to do right by the community and am happy to see when such negativity is ended.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
      That's what this needs to come down to, it's not about freedom of speech, and being able to share your own opinion at all costs. It won't always be rainbows and puppy dogs, but sometimes, certain opinions aren't healthy for anyone to hear, or even close to being okay to say, especially when their only intent was to make others feel bad and it's up to the people at TRP to recognize when that is happening. I trust them to do right by the community and am happy to see when such negativity is ended.
      This is a problem though. You might not think something is good for people to hear, and TRP may not be the place to express those opinions, but someone IS going to express those opinions and the community as it stands has no support structure for dissenting opinions. It's group-think or be silenced and that is equally unhealthy. There needs to be an outlet within the DM community for that sort of opinion too, because no matter what any group of people thinks, the opposite opinion will always exist. I'm not saying TRP should allow everything, I'm saying someone should allow what TRP doesn't - and that simply doesn't exist right now. Half the reddit's mod team is TRP's mod team, dice anon doesn't have a forum, PDC is like half TRP people and lacks a forum, and the facebook page requires delving into that side of social media and then you end up back to being stuck in the same group again anyway for the most part.
    1. TRP_Admin's Avatar
      TRP_Admin -
      Brief follow-up: This is actually about many things, some that would have gone unseen. Unfortunately public issues are the most apparent but that's not all that's happening.

      Second, this has nothing to do with stifling opinions. It is about vitriol.

      Good:
      Person: "I have this opinion."
      Other person: "I disagree with your point of view and wish to discuss it."

      Bad:
      Person: "I have this opinion."
      Other Person: "Your opinion is stupid and anyone who shares it is a moron."

      The second scenario is not one we will allow.
    1. RainCityJenna's Avatar
      RainCityJenna -
      Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
      This is a problem though. You might not think something is good for people to hear, and TRP may not be the place to express those opinions, but someone IS going to express those opinions and the community as it stands has no support structure for dissenting opinions. It's group-think or be silenced and that is equally unhealthy. There needs to be an outlet within the DM community for that sort of opinion too, because no matter what any group of people thinks, the opposite opinion will always exist. I'm not saying TRP should allow everything, I'm saying someone should allow what TRP doesn't - and that simply doesn't exist right now. Half the reddit's mod team is TRP's mod team, dice anon doesn't have a forum, PDC is like half TRP people and lacks a forum, and the facebook page requires delving into that side of social media and then you end up back to being stuck in the same group again anyway for the most part.
      The PDC has one TRP person out of 7 and has a forum.

      The point was. There are constructive ways to have discussions and there are destructive ways. Like I said, we won't always agree, or get along, but we should respect each other enough to not try to tear each other down. And when that happens, I fully support a mod getting involved.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Quote Originally Posted by TRP_Admin View Post
      Brief follow-up: This is actually about many things, some that would have gone unseen. Unfortunately public issues are the most apparent but that's not all that's happening.

      Second, this has nothing to do with stifling opinions. It is about vitriol.

      Good:
      Person: "I have this opinion."
      Other person: "I disagree with your point of view and wish to discuss it."

      Bad:
      Person: "I have this opinion."
      Other Person: "Your opinion is stupid and anyone who shares it is a moron."

      The second scenario is not one we will allow.
      Okay, so let's analyze what has happened.

      Some drama happens on the website. One person gets suspended, some discussions get locked, some behind the scenes things happen that most people aren't aware of.
      TRP_Admin account pops up to post on behalf of the TRP staff.
      The first thing the TRP_Admin account does is accuse some nebulous amount of the community of being "toxic".
      If we're banning people for vitriol shouldn't TRP_Admin be the first account banned, or is calling random people toxic not vitriolic enough?

      I am fine admitting some things happened I am not aware of. There are details from the behind scenes bit I'm missing but it still looks like you're in the wrong to me.
    1. archivist's Avatar
      archivist -
      Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
      The first thing the TRP_Admin account does is accuse some nebulous amount of the community of being "toxic".
      I submit TRP is not blaming anyone. They are stating a fact - this has happened.


      If we're banning people for vitriol shouldn't TRP_Admin be the first account banned, or is calling random people toxic not vitriolic enough?
      I agree, that Admin people should be held to the same standard (one could argue a higher standard). But I haven't read any "vitriol" statements coming from the TRP Staff. I have read it coming from other posters. I do not agree that describing or portraying the situation or (anonymous) posters for what they are or have done is "vitriolic". It is stating the premise for the original message and reaffirming what behavior is expected on these forums.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
      I submit TRP is not blaming anyone, they are stating a fact - this has happened.
      I agree that this has happened - but I find it ironic that the side that seems most toxic is the actual staff. Just read this and then think about it for a moment.
      Quote Originally Posted by TRP_Admin View Post
      We mention this for a reason. In the weeks since Origins, a not insignificant piece of the group has turned a bit toxic. Aspects of game rules, tournament rules, and other in- and out-of-game discussions have turned from potentially productive conversations to personal mudslinging. Many players have been disparaged and belittled, as groups and as individuals.
      In the first sentence of this quote, which you can scroll up and confirm they actually posted, is them saying that some players are toxic. The third sentence is them complaining about how some players were belittled and disparaged. So the group accusing other players of being toxic is also the same group complaining about members of the community being belittled. Do you not see the hypocrisy here? YOU'RE TOXIC, BUT DON'T BELITTLE PEOPLE!

      I agree, that Admin people should be held to the same standard (one could argue a higher standard). But I haven't read any "vitriol" statements coming from the TRP Staff. I have read it coming from other posters. I do not agree that describing or portraying the situation or (anonymous) posters for what they are or have done is "vitriolic". It is stating the reason for the original message and reaffirming what behavior is expected on these forums.
      I guess we're just interpreting this situation differently than. I'm not sure how else to put it really. We're looking at the same information and concluding different things from it.
    1. archivist's Avatar
      archivist -
      Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
      Do you not see the hypocrisy here?
      No, I can't.

      I guess we're just interpreting this situation differently than. I'm not sure how else to put it really. We're looking at the same information and concluding different things from it.
      Indeed - as with many posting via this medium, but we discussed this in a mature, cordial manner.


      This is the behavior being requested in the original post.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
      No, I can't.
      Where to me it seems pretty blatant. Might seem like an odd question that is perhaps better suited for PM, but for context, do you typically revere authority figures? Trying to pick at your brain a bit to get a better understanding of where your stance comes from.

      Indeed - as with many posting via this medium, but we discussed this in a mature, cordial manner.


      This is the behavior being requested in the original post.
      But then there is also the fact that I've now accused them of being hypocrites, so from their perspective it could be seen as reasonable that I'm the toxic aspect of the community. The very concept of some people having "toxic behaviors" is flawed in that way, because it all depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. We're all toxic some of the time to some people. I think that "toxic behavior" is something so subjective that it's not reasonable to expect it to not happen. It's ok to not get along with everyone - nobody does.
    1. jevansfp's Avatar
      jevansfp -
      @Scum : I don't speak for @TRP_Admin , but I read that sentence with the words "toxic" in it different than you did. It seems like you assumed that the toxicity they reference was one or more people and found them to be name-callers, while they arguing that name-calling is something that they don't want to see. I read it as that they were saying that the behavior, the name-calling, etc. was becoming toxic to the community, at least to this site's community. Therefore I didn't read it as them being hypocritical.

      I read much of the comments on the earlier ID post. I didn't realize that someone got banned from the TRP site. @TRP_Admin didn't announce that here, so if you are announcing it, then I assume you know this person (he/she-who-shall-not-be-named) well enough to have communicated with them elsewhere and learned this information. They might have even been a friend that you feel the need to stick up for here. That makes you a good friend.

      But @TRP_Admin is not your enemy. Vitriol is the enemy to this community. Polite discourse is not the enemy, but rather the goal of a forum that TRP provides. The foundations of disagreement are essential for a community to grow. Hopefully new consensuses can be reached or at least a chance to see an issue from another person's point of view.

      After missing out of the top 8 at the 1st WKO Regional in Detroit, and therefore my shot at Nationals and the Top 8 prizes from that tournament, by the collusion of 2 players to ID, guaranteeing them both a spot instead of playing it out (and potentially leaving a spot open for other players to move up), I have been opposed to IDs. I see it as collusion to affect the outcome of the tournament, to the detriment of other players who came to win. I would have labelled it as cheating back then. Part of the upset feelings that the original post engendered, was that a group of players who have taken IDs were being called cheaters by many there in that thread as a result. After reading @Dave 's original article, he softened my view on it. I saw that IDs were a problem, because draws were a problem, because if draws can happen naturally, then IDs should be legal. My views were also softened at World's by seeing some of my friends take IDs after they already had enough wins to make the cut but needed a break to get some dinner at that LONG tournament. That didn't feel like collusion to get ahead.

      So instead of worrying that we are calling each other toxic (which I don't think is what they meant) or flinging the word "cheater" around when 2 people make a tournament-legal decision, let's keep this discussion going, but focus on ways to mitigate the problem, which is what I thought was the point of @Dave starting up this discussion in the first place. How could WizKids modify the tournament rules to eliminate draws altogether? There are rules in place for top 8 cuts to eliminate draws and they used those in the rainbow drafts for Foil cards at Regional's & World's. Could that be adapted in the regular game in such a way that would make draws irrelevant and therefore remove the possibility of IDs? If matches are binary, a win or a loss, then IDs wouldn't exist. Collusion might still be a problem if someone intentionally concedes a match to give a friend a boost, but it seems like much less of one. I don't know if this is reasonable or feasible, but I think it is something we should discuss. I think @Dave 's original post brought out the fact that there are very strong feelings on this issue. I hope that we can come together as a community to solve it. I don't know how bad he/she-who-shall-not-be-named's infractions were, but I hope that there is a way for them to come back to be a part of this and future discussions eventually also.
    1. Jwannabe's Avatar
      Jwannabe -
      *applause * for postivity.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      Quote Originally Posted by jevansfp View Post
      @Scum : I don't speak for @TRP_Admin , but I read that sentence with the words "toxic" in it different than you did. It seems like you assumed that the toxicity they reference was one or more people and found them to be name-callers, while they arguing that name-calling is something that they don't want to see. I read it as that they were saying that the behavior, the name-calling, etc. was becoming toxic to the community, at least to this site's community. Therefore I didn't read it as them being hypocritical.
      Quote Originally Posted by TRP_Admin View Post
      In the weeks since Origins, a not insignificant piece of the group has turned a bit toxic.
      "A not insignificant piece of the group" = some people from the group = some people. Words have meanings. This sentence is directly saying some people have turned toxic unless he's asserting that some non-human is behaving in a toxic fashion. I'm not sure how you've read that any differently but the statement is pretty clear.

      I read much of the comments on the earlier ID post. I didn't realize that someone got banned from the TRP site. @TRP_Admin didn't announce that here, so if you are announcing it, then I assume you know this person (he/she-who-shall-not-be-named) well enough to have communicated with them elsewhere and learned this information. They might have even been a friend that you feel the need to stick up for here. That makes you a good friend.
      I don't really know the person that well. I've talked to them a couple of times outside of this site, not in person, and previous to that I've had no interaction with him. However the suspension (it's not a permanent ban) happened in a pretty public way and it's pretty easy to see what happened.

      But @TRP_Admin is not your enemy. Vitriol is the enemy to this community. Polite discourse is not the enemy, but rather the goal of a forum that TRP provides. The foundations of disagreement are essential for a community to grow. Hopefully new consensuses can be reached or at least a chance to see an issue from another person's point of view.
      I agree. I think TRP_Admin has chosen to enforce their TOS in a way I wouldn't have chosen to and have made some decisions I find questionable. However, I don't think they're bad guys, and they were pretty supportive in times I've needed it. They are not my enemies and I'll probably always think they're alright guys. However, I think this one decision reflects poorly on the community as a whole, and it was one that didn't need to happen.
    1. Yort's Avatar
      Yort -
      There's a guy who works for me... he's a great guy all around, and quite good at his job. When my kids come into the office, he always brings various trinkets out from his desk somewhere and lets them play around with it. He was recently very instrumental in helping a very complex change in software come out successfully.

      His only problem tends to be email and other online communication. Sometimes he can communicate very clearly, but other times - especially when he might disagree with a particular premise - he can really sound like a d--- uh, a jerk.

      As his manager, I've had to deal with the aftermath of this several times. One of them, he basically insinuated that one of our VPs was lacking basic knowledge in the field that he (the VP) was in charge of. That was a fun day.

      This person is not a "toxic" person. As I said, he's really quite nice. But sometimes his communication *can* be toxic. There's a difference.

      Communicating via text on a screen is difficult. You don't have inflection, body language, etc. You really have to ask yourself, when you post something: could I be coming across as a jerk? If the answer could be yes, consider rephrasing your point.

      That's all I think that this article was asking for, and I wholeheartedly concur.
    1. Joepancreas's Avatar
      Joepancreas -
      Is there a list of who all the mods are somewhere on the site?
    1. TRP_Admin's Avatar
      TRP_Admin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
      Is there a list of who all the mods are somewhere on the site?
      Mods/admins have green/yellow/red names and include in no particular order:

      Shadowmeld
      IsaacBV
      Dave
      Randy
      jthomash2
      TheConductr
      Flexei
      OddballNarwhal
      Pk2317

      Please feel free to approach any of us individually with questions or concerns. Post/comment reports automatically go to a place where all of us can see.
    1. artean's Avatar
      artean -
      I know I am new here and not really competitive but I just wanted to further the discussion. Being that I have been a "competitive" player for two weeks IDs are something that have no bearing on me currently. That being said when the discussion was cordial and people were sharing their point of view without attacking or disparaging others it was good to read. After a little bit of it going on it went from discussion to people being called cheaters, liars, having their morals questioned, etc. It's one thing to disagree it's another to outright attack someone because they don't. At that point I found it toxic and couldn't even finish reading it. For example at our local event yesterday a player questioned how a card worked. The judge came and gave their ruling. They player told they judge they accepted the ruling but still disagreed with it. That, to me, is the difference between disagreeing and being toxic in my opinion.
    1. Jauron's Avatar
      Jauron -
      I'm fairly new but it honestly looked to me like the person in question got into an argument with a mod and the site had to back the mod regardless of the situation.

      On one hand, that is life. Authority has to back authority and you go into any clash with authority knowing that. On the other hand, authority shouldn't be pretending it's not authority, by you know, getting into arguments and being from what I saw equally at fault.


      Anyway, my take away is don't talk to mods. It's cool I don't do that much talking here anyways.
    1. Scum's Avatar
      Scum -
      "Don't talk to mods" seems like the wrong take away. They're community members just as much as we are.
    1. SlapsterMcFlash's Avatar
      SlapsterMcFlash -
      I dunno, I don't talk to police... seems like it might start being another good rule of thumb.

      that's obviously a joke... well, the second part is

      I definitely don't talk to police