• TRP Chat - Modern Blanking Options

    In this short TRP Chat segment, we compare the blanking options in modern and weigh their pros and cons.

    memmek2k: New topic: Slander vs. Kryptonite vs. Cold Gun (and comparisons to other "blanking" techniques, e.g. Mr. Mxyzptlk: Trickster).

    Discussion to be in the context of Modern

    Additional context: SR Ronin: Between Employers is probably going to be super meta. How do you deal with him? Do you blank him? Do you run ping-burn?

    shadowmeld: Slander and cold gun aren't strong enough for Ronin, kryptonite is. Meaning UM teams meta value increases.

    memmek2k: do you mean that just because slander and cold gun blank the die, not easily stopping multiple ronins?

    shadowmeld: Right. I buy a 3 active, to stop your 5 attacks, you buy a 2 use or 3 continuous to stop my 3, I buy another 3.... Cycle continues

    memmek2k: so, kryptonite is the must-have; i guess the next question is "is this team the beatdown or the control against UM?"

    I've got a long lunch and a full day; I'll probably check in tomorrow and see how the discussion is going

    dave: If there is Ronin, there is a good chance at Raven too, so targeting doesn't feel good.

    dave: I think having a targeting option is ok, but you'd need to also have an AOE.

    whisperni: Slander is by far the weakest of these blanking techniques

    It is also the cheapest, but I don't think the cost of slander is almost ever worth it

    First it takes up a basic action slot, and it can be used by your opponent.

    Both are negative for me. My basic actions are usually crucial and Slander is rarely a first pick for me when I have a lot of other options.

    Second, giving my opponent the ability to blank my cards is just a bad idea

    Kryptonite is good for a number of reasons, but I think it is weaker in Modern vs Golden

    whisperni: For Kryptonite to shine it needs to be played every turn. There are some ways to do this with scarlet witch and others, but without Prof X letting you roll your whole bag every turn it is just weaker. (edited)

    When it does work it is great though.

    Kryptonite is also a win condition with Ultraman so if you decide to play Ultraman then you have kryptonite doing its thing as well as letting you win.

    Of these 3 options, Cold Gun is the most versatile.

    In a world where ramp is slower, you have a blanking action that allows you to not only play it on the turn you need it, but play it on your opponents turn.

    It is the hardest to play as it is the most expensive of the 3 options, and is only effective on 2/6 sides rather then 3/6

    but when used well can save the day

    shadowmeld: Downside, it blanks a single copy of a die, not all copies.

    Won't negate already triggered effects like the new hellcat or even two Dwarf Wizards.

    One reason why it wasn't a great counter to Constantine.

    whisperni: If I had to choose between these 3, I would choose Kryptonite in ultraman decks, and cold gun in almost every other situation, unless I could reliably use the kryptonite every turn somehow. (edited)

    pk2317: SR Miracle Man! Boomerang!

    whisperni: but as far as I am concerned intimidate is almost as good as kryptonite so if a good method to intimidate reliably comes out, I might go that route (edited)

    SR Miracle Man might work with multiple kryptonites running through my bag.

    shadowmeld: True believer and Cassie best intimidate.

    whisperni: actually, my favorite intimidate is 2 elf thiefs and punisher with parrallax.

    its not as good in modern

    but I used to use it in golden to great effect

    memmek2k: I tend to take the approach of "consider what you're blanking and why." Is your team's weak spot against aggro, effectively unblockable characters, like Dick Grayson? Cold Gun for sure - being able to stop Dick Grayson on your opponent's turn is huge. But like @shadowmeld said, Kryptonite is better against any cheap character your opponent could buy multiple copies to get around Cold Gun. You could buy 1 for 1 Cold Guns, but ehh.

    I agree with @whisperni that I never play Slander.

    I disagree that Kryptonite needs to be played every turn. Ultraman excluded, it only needs to be played on critical turns. If your team buffs to a 20/20 unblockable, then you only need Ronin blank for one turn.

    I think it's worth considering that without Prismatic Spray, none of these solutions answer Mera global. And that gets into how I prefer to play in Modern, I think - I like to be able to go around both. Ronin can only redirect once per turn, and we don't have tons of left over masks to fuel Mera anymore. Make your opponent make tough choices - the more time they spend thinking while you're resting, the more likely you are to out-play them in your match.

    whisperni: The main reason I think I say that kryptonite should be available every turn is because you don't know beforehand when that critical turn will be.

    If you luck out and have it for the turn you need great, if not and you didn't draw it then it failed in its job.

    the only real way to predict what turn it will be on in modern is the rip hunter kryptonite route, and in some teams, that is great, but I don't like giving my opponent rip hunter unless my rip hunter will win me the game more then my opponent.

    memmek2k: I disagree, you should know 1-2 turns out when your critical turns will start occurring

    rolls permitting, of course

    dave: Draw permitting too. Since we can't roll our whole bag, we also can't predict our draws with the same consistency

    So the "critical turn" could be any of the next three without some help. That's quite a moving target.

    memmek2k: Do you not plan to field sidekicks in modern?

    shadowmeld: Not against Ultraman

    dave: Counterpoint: Do you not plan to buy dice?

    memmek2k: Idk, I think planning on being up to 3 turns out from lethal, after you've bought what you need, is a recipe for disaster

    dave: There are fewer options to mitigate randomness, and we will be rolling fewer dice, which actually means increased variance. So if it's a more methodical game of rolling what you want when you want through Rip or Pact and other means of used pile management, we are also giving the opponent equivalent time to set up, increasing the probability of a counter to single target blanking. Honestly, of these options, the only one I love is Kryptonite because of Ultraman, and outside of that I'm probably not running any of them. And, if you rely on those for your primary means of protection, you just lose any game against Raven. (edited)

    Also, that means you often will need to set up this die and your win con to fire in the same turn. That could sometimes be a challenge *before* rotation.

    jthomash2: I prefer spray


    shadowmeld: We could always discuss Dwarf Wiz as at least being a character, and continual effect.

    And blanks all copies

    Him versus Kryptonite is the big choice.

    memmek2k: i think that's a reasonable transition to take the discussion. @dave's targeting point is still salient though

    shadowmeld: Yes, and on your opponent's turn, they have more control of what is blanked, because they can kill the dwarf pretty easily. I will say though, teams that don't bring removal, like UM OAM would need to blank the Dwarf with their first K, then play a second to trigger UM.

    memmek2k: is it worth pointing out that the kryptonites on UM-OAM are soft removal?

    shadowmeld: They are, but not against DWiz. Gotta use 2 in one turn to even go off.

    DWiz plus Ronin is a solid combo for stopping damage removal and Kryptonite trigger. Assuming you can then build damage into the rest of your team. And both of those pieces work well against other teams too.

    Did we forget your favorite way to deal with problematic cards? Let us know in the comments!
    Comments 6 Comments
    1. Yort's Avatar
      Yort -
      I'll be curious, especially with the new Batman set coming out, whether Vigilante Justice will be popular.
    1. memmek2k's Avatar
      memmek2k -
      Quote Originally Posted by Yort View Post
      I'll be curious, especially with the new Batman set coming out, whether Vigilante Justice will be popular.
      I could see it being pretty popular targeted removal -- I've already seen a few successful team lists built around it. There's a good chance almost every team at Nats/Worlds will have a Bat family control piece, though, so make sure you can deal with those or that they don't affect your team.
    1. ZBiggety's Avatar
      ZBiggety -
      You all hinted at it but never talked about it: in a meta where all blanking is targeted, rare raven is king. What do you plan on doing about it?
    1. memmek2k's Avatar
      memmek2k -
      Quote Originally Posted by ZBiggety View Post
      You all hinted at it but never talked about it: in a meta where all blanking is targeted, rare raven is king. What do you plan on doing about it?
      Our silence is the answer - if we had a good solution, we'd have brought it up. So far the Rare Batman with Flip in the new Batman set looks to be a solid non-targeting option. Black Bolt-Medusa works too. Past that, most of the other non-targeting abilities in Modern still require your opponent to make a misplay to get rid of Raven. Things like PF Magneto that let them select which dice to reroll, or Speedball: Robbie Baldwin. Maybe something with Mr. Mxyzptlk: Equalizer and an effect that deals 1-2 damage to all opposing characters. But it's all slower than Raven, save for cards that aren't out yet.
    1. JustK's Avatar
      JustK -
      If talking modern and Raven is thought to be a card that will be in many decks that you will play against, why not use Delayed Blast Fireball? I have one a couple of games with that card. Especially since there is no targeting of that and No bard to pump everything up too high for it to ill everything. On any side it does 4 damage which should kill most things your opponent will be using.

      Raven does only protect Masks and Teen Titans though. I believe there is a Teen Titan deck to be made.

      Either way. In modern, Delayed Blast Fireball would handle the Raven problem and in Prime format there is no reason to worry about her since Raven not legal in that format.
    1. WeaponO's Avatar
      WeaponO -
      Hey Shadowmeld… not that UM needs any more love, but… I ran him at worlds last summer and we got a ruling on the Kryptonite / DWiz interaction. Obviously not WKRF gospel, but for what it's worth here's how they ruled the timing would go down… DWiz has already named UM and both are in the field. UM player rolls Kryptonite and targets DWiz, and because he's the active player he gets to completely resolve Kryptonite's effect before UM checks to proc his effect. UM then checks to see "if a Kryptonite action die is used" (perhaps a significant difference between "if" and "when") and because he's no longer blanked all his shenanigans go off, meaning it only takes 1 Kryptonite usage on DWiz to start the fireworks…