• TRP Chat: Reflecting on Origins and Goals for the Next Year

    We're back with another TRP Chat session! JT (jthomash2), Paul (pk2317), Randy (randy), Dave (dave), Patrick (shadowmeld), Isaac (isaacbv), Trubie (flexei), Stuart (theconductr), Michaela (memmek2k), and Mike (whisperni) reflect on the meta at Origins and what Modern looks like moving forward. They also set goals for the upcoming year. Plus, the return of RJ (rjretro)!

    For reference, JT, Isaac, and Stuart all played a very similar Darkseid-Grodd team they'd come up with for Nationals. For worlds, JT dropped some of the tech pieces for more alternate win conditions. Michaela ran Guy Gardner with Luke Cage and Lantern Ring for Nationals, and Mask Ring for Worlds. Paul ran Mask Ring for both events. Randy and Patrick ran very different Teen Titans builds for Nationals. Mike ran a Vibranium Shield team for both events, and Patrick joined him for Worlds (after helping him edit it overnight). Trubie ran an original bolt team. Dave was unable to compete in the events due to scheduling, but was present at Origins.


    dave: New Topic----------------------!!!!! Nats/Worlds implications.

    jthomash2: Healthier meta than I could have hoped for

    memmek2k: several people are typing

    dave: 1) What do we think about the starting point for this meta established by Nats/Worlds? Will this year of Modern be colored by these tournaments? Separately...
    2) do we like these tournaments and the end of the season being the first of the new or should it be the last of the old? This year's need to establish rotation notwithstanding!

    Start with 1).

    jthomash2: First, let's acknowledge that wonder woman changes everything. So even gencon modern well be different

    memmek2k: I'm really excited by modern. It was a lot easier to stop Ultraman than I thought it would be coming out of Prime (in STL, we focused on Prime first to get us out of the Golden mindset). While there was a lot of lantern ring, the variability in support for Ring was much, much wider than Bard control ever was

    memmek2k: And yeah, Wonder Woman and Shriek will change everything.

    flexei: Agreed. Wonder Woman _should_ be a big deal, but I've been wrong before. This COULD be the last hurrah for Lantern Ring... but once again, possible wishful thinking

    jthomash2: Wonder woman. Will she make the true believer global relevant?

    pk2317:
    True Believer - Basic Action Card
    Target character gets +2A and +1D until end of turn.

    Global: Pay [2 mask]. Once during your turn, you may remove one of your characters from the Field Zone until end of turn.
    Good call - that really sets up Mask Ring even stronger (since she is a Mask and that Global uses Masks)

    jthomash2: I was really not at all prepared to see *this* meta. I assumed we would see lots more um/mask ring

    pk2317: Ultraman was the new VS - a flash in the pan, that is great when it works but too roll-dependent

    jthomash2: In prime, still likely top dog...

    dave: Very little UM in fact, if any. Fluke, or does he come back? He is roll dependent but we are also bringing more consistency pieces into Modern. And Prime too, yes.

    Beholder was like that until the sets in now-Golden reached critical mass.

    memmek2k: UM is like beholder - very vulnerable to teched BACs

    shadowmeld: So, here's the thing. Global heavy strategies fell out of favor with the rise of Mask Ring. VS became impossible, and the new array of global all tend to advantage you first few turns more than later few. UM became a solid strategy against those teams with it's relative freedom from global needs.

    memmek2k: the time to play UM again will be when everyone has forgotten about it and stopped teching

    jthomash2: I feel like there was an interesting shift that happened across the board. I spoke to many who expected um/mr and were surprised by what they did see (guy/fist ring /bolt ring/Darkseid) (edited)

    dave: Speaking of globals... lots of them. Michaela pointed out earlier that Oracle is probably more relevant than predicted. Does she return and does she do enough to the teams we saw?

    jthomash2: Shield ring probably. That might be it though

    shadowmeld: But, with those UM strategies, oracle changed and elf thief became worthless

    To me, shield ring only became so powerful, because there was zero meta pressure on global use.

    jthomash2: Not worthless. Just not as single-card-to-control-your-opponent as it was before

    dave: So do we see-saw between globals and not for the next year? And how does Wonder Woman and the upcoming Shriek impact that?

    memmek2k: if you only need globals for a turn at a time, during your turn, Shriek becomes as important as spray was. Assuming Shriek is when fielded. [Ed.: This part of the chat occurred before the full spoilers for Maximum Carnage - at this point, we only knew about Dark Empathy, and not Sonic Beam]

    jthomash2: Which would make ww critical too

    memmek2k: though we'll probably need a ruling on Shriek vs Wonder Woman

    jthomash2: Is shriek a bolt?

    dave: And to that point we ARE seeing globals being used more on your turn instead of their turn. Beyond a couple of defensive ones.

    memmek2k: actually, now that I type that out, I think that's what the next meta hinges on. How does WKRF rule Shriek vs Wonder Woman

    jthomash2: Ww has to win that

    memmek2k: I would normally agree.

    dave: I would think.

    jthomash2: Unless there's "this text can't be ignored"

    memmek2k: or if Shriek is randomly "while shriek is active" which would be super OP

    shadowmeld: Shriek has the advantage of active AND blank... WW has the advantage of "can't"

    dave: Hopefully I'll remember to throw an image of WW when we go back and edit this. HEY DAVE DO THAT YOU MORON!
    [Ed.: see below]
    Attachment 7597

    jthomash2: But shriek being bolts would make k for ww the go-to when wol becomes golden

    dave: I'll also note that some of this is speculative since all we know is she is a "prismatic spray on legs" and not how that manifests yet.

    jthomash2: You know what else is bolts?

    RICOCHET

    dave: #teamricochet?

    shadowmeld: I could read some of her text in the meeting, pretty sure it was fielded and blanks cards.

    memmek2k: Bolts was already strong in modern; there were some games Jared only really relied on firefly.

    dave: So what moves on from here? There were tons of globals, does that diminish with the next starter? I guess the questions are, what is in the best position to get better? What is in the position to lose ground?

    Also this is WAY more entertaining than expense reports.

    memmek2k: There's a fair number of globals in the next starter

    res, outsider, giganta, take cover

    dave: But also a card that stops character globals.

    memmek2k: only one of those was a character global

    right now, for the control player, I think master investigator (global oracle) and reflections (when fielded/attacks WW) are the right calls

    oracle taxes every global in a relatively energy-lean meta; WW stops two major strategies

    dave: Right, sorry, I'm referring to the character globals we are seeing - Darkseid, the GAF Fixers, Spider, etc.

    randy: Both masks. Both protected by rare Raven

    memmek2k: yeah; until WOL rotates out, masks will continue to be strong

    dave: So Oracle to tax, and WW "Reflections" to stop When Fielded and When Attacks, protected by Raven, sounds good.

    memmek2k: the global WW, I think, is a tech piece for a future meta. Right now, it's too hit and miss - e.g. does almost nothing against many guy rush teams

    dave: What is viable after that comes down to how WW vs Shriek is ruled.

    memmek2k: doesn't hurt JT/Stuart/Isaac's Darkseid build iirc

    @dave yeah

    shadowmeld: Doesn't stop Vibranium Shield

    dave: Nope.

    So again, does that mean we bounce between global heavy and not for a little while? I could see that. It's not hard to theory-craft a rock-paper-scissors meta shaping up.

    shadowmeld: I think we will always do that. Forever and ever.

    randy: WW vs Shriek doesn't seem to affect Guy rush, fwiw

    memmek2k: guys gonna rush. cant explain that

    randy: Guy doesn't have a "when attacks" ability

    memmek2k: well, the FAQ categorizes "when attacks" and "while attacks" as the same. So we'll need a ruling there.

    oh wait, no, guy is even weirder than i remembered

    shadowmeld: I think we actually have a ruling. We know his buff is applied and triggers when he attacks

    memmek2k:
    Guy Gardner must attack each turn (if able) and gets +1A for each other attacking die.
    I suspect it'll be ruled to be a "when attacks" ability, but \_(ツ)_/

    randy: indeed \_(ツ)_/

    dave: I think we could be looking at sets of :
    1) Strong global teams (Shield Ring)
    2) Strong anti-global, anti-"fielded" teams (WW Oracle)
    3) Strong teams that don't necessarily rely on globals or fielded/attack abilities. (UM, Darkseid)

    Those are just examples in parentheses not exhaustive lists.

    memmek2k: the trick will be if (2) can control both (1) and (3). I could control UM easily, but Darkseid got out of hand several times when I was playing Mask Ring at Origins.

    dave: Yes. But if nothing crazy breaks the system we could see the most interesting, diverse and healthy meta that DM has experienced to this point. With reasonably high skill teams leading on all fronts.

    Fingers crossed?

    memmek2k: nods

    isaacbv: I still think the elf thief on mask ring was a solid call in this meta. Watch how teams used Blink TM and how important it would have been to steal a mask away.

    Also, Rare Electra was a card I wanted because of blink TM but couldn't get it on the team. Those that had it broke the Guy/Blink global ties.

    memmek2k: In retrospect, I might have considered dropping oracle entirely for thief. Either thief or master investigator would have been the right call; rather than the one i brought

    dave: This is true, but Elf becomes a utility piece, right? Before you used it because you *knew* there was PXG and there was also another useful global or two. Now? Much less predictable. That call probably depends on how prevalent Blink-T continues to be. (edited)

    memmek2k: but yeah, thief is a tech piece against LLTR and Blink-T

    dave: Though with ring sticking, probably prevalent right?

    isaacbv: Yes but it is still free to field. So rolling a character face hurts less if you need to buy other stuff (edited)

    jthomash2: ^^

    isaacbv: Playtesting with both MM and thieves for MRing I really liked thieves. They didn't do the work for me in quals but that was the not the norm.

    shadowmeld: That economy, of fielding, is made up for in the swarm ability of MM, in even the shortest of times. Unless you also get the energy steal, MM is the better econ. However, if you aren't going for the rush win, elf provides more control just by being in circulation.

    memmek2k: I basically agree with @shadowmeld, which was why I ran MM. MM is consistent and works under all situations; thief is dependent on each specific game. But when thief is the right call, man, he does work.

    dave: It does but it's slightly slower Swarm than other instances and I think many are used to Swarm = fast. I think his usage is still being perfected.

    isaacbv: But ultimately no version of mask ring could beat Darkguy grodd which is why it got left on the table even though I knew that team the best.

    dave: Fair point. How does Dark Guy Grodd get treated by upcoming content?

    shadowmeld: First we have to weigh SR vs UC Darkseid and opportunity cost missed.

    memmek2k: @isaacbv :troll:

    to be fair, I was sweating, and I don't know that I could have won an additional full game (vs the 3 round tie breaker)

    isaacbv: Troll how so?

    memmek2k: I beat JT in top 8

    isaacbv: Oh you and JT

    memmek2k: lol

    isaacbv: His team was different. It wasn't the same

    memmek2k: nods

    memmek2k: :stuck_out_tongue:

    isaacbv: He didn't run reps against mask ring either

    jthomash2: I didn't run reps. Period.

    memmek2k: #excuses

    jthomash2: Ha.

    isaacbv: But that's the difference sometimes isn't it?

    memmek2k: seriously though, I meant what I said - I don't know I would have won another game in a match. That team is powerful. We'd happened on something similar in stl - running wong instead of guy - but i think we focused too much on protecting the sidekick and consistently hitting DS. The beauty of your team was the pivot.

    And I think I'm about to eat a lot of my words in the upcoming meta - having a pivot strategy/card is suddenly much more useful than it used to be. Almost every team we prepared for Origins ended up with at least two win conditions. I used to really emphasize to new players to only put one win condition on their teams, focus around it, and protect it.

    dave: Well, we do like toolbox teams though don't we?

    memmek2k: i still think that's important as a stepping stone for learning, but I certainly don't build my own teams that way anymore. Even my mask ring team, which only had lantern ring as the wincon, had several different ways to play it.

    dave: Right. It's a starting point for unfamiliar territory.

    isaacbv: So much Guy Gardner in this meta and with rip it became a viable pressure method to win. I had numerous games where it was just buy your 4 and I buy mine and let's see who draws poorly next time.

    memmek2k: our guy-luke-ring team felt like we just grabbed all our favorite win conditions and threw some globals on it lol

    isaacbv: My struggles were the speed of that team and I felt like I couldn't set up. I should have just ran to my win con and not worried about yours. I went Ronin and thief when I should have just sold out to Darkseid

    jthomash2: In worlds, I won games with guy/miri rush, bolt ring, fist ring, fist bolt ring, grodd guy, and darkseid made the engine go sometimes. That pivot was a hard call. It was kind of fun to have 4 wincons, though.

    isaacbv: In Nats I faced all guy ring rushdown. They were coin flip games

    shadowmeld: In testing, we found that you can play distinctly different styles of team with the same 8 cards, and it took hours and hours of knowing those match ups to get the right footing under you.

    That said, a great team can apparently be net decked the night before and be ace piloted to victory.

    memmek2k: they put in a lot of reps the night before, to be fair

    still flabbergasted by the namorita rush though

    isaacbv: @memmek2k Victor said they put in exactly 3 reps

    memmek2k: 3 is a lot when you're that tired lol

    isaacbv: Ha

    dave: Also true! And big congrats to Victor. Let's move on to the main point though - what gets built on and what gets sat aside? Did this establish a foundation for the competitive season to come? And what does that look like if so?

    shadowmeld: It definitely established that anything can win.

    memmek2k: At the same time, I'm done with ultraman for a bit. I'll poke back around after D&D3 and Thor, see what BACs we get.

    memmek2k: I think we'll continue to see darkseid teams and the value of the card will stay high for a while - they've been proven to be both effective and fun (seriously rolling all that dice all the time is a blast)

    isaacbv: Darkseid is a pivot piece. I learned this in all the testing we did. He comes in quick, allows a few giant purchases and does his job. If he stays great. But if not he did his work and pushes you to the win. It is a blast though and it's intimidating as the opponent to have that many SKs rolled

    dave: Especially since both teams can't just do it as they could with PXG.

    memmek2k: Yeah - as I said elsewhere, he's an engine, not a wincon. He lets you play stuff like Grodd and Bahamut. But if they can't deal with your SK, he also lends a lot of consistency to, well, everything. If you're rolling everything, who cares about bag management.

    shadowmeld: Additionally, if they are buying to stop him, are they buying to stop your wincon?

    isaacbv: Ethan went into the cut as a 14th seed or something like that with a fast mask ring team. He had one goal and just ran with it. Those players that played their team and knew their team could win beat those who hesitated or made extra purchases. The competitive scene is so much less control than it has been in the past.

    The question will be what changes that....

    shadowmeld: A win con that rewards control more than rush, and a control piece that INCIDENTALLY makes rush a bit harder. If for example, Wonder Woman could block 2 characters and stop when fielded/when attacks, she'd easily shift the gears.

    dave: I think we are a bit less tactical than we just were but not totally "have a plan and do nothing else." I think it's in the middle which is probably good?

    pk2317: When are the next major competitive events? Gen-Con should be before any other WKOs, most likely? [Ed.: Turns out Salt Lake Gaming Con had an event first. Mike Plumb won with an edited version of Brian Hacker's Shield Ring Team (that Victor Maya piloted to World Champion).]

    dave: Gen Con, SLCC, and then whatever from there, yes.

    pk2317: We'll have WW in the meta, a few new BACs, and depending on pushback the Carnage TP

    dave: Indeed we will.

    pk2317: Wonder Woman will be a pretty hard counter to most Ring Teams

    isaacbv: Agreed Dave that we are less tactical . I think this is less than even last year.

    pk2317: At 5 cost you can buy and rip her T2 and be out on T3

    dave: But, I think the lessons of being tactical over the last WKO season were useful and relevant. People can read the board better now and that makes for better play.

    isaacbv: For sure

    dave: Anything else about the foundation from Origins or should we move to #2?

    isaacbv: Top builds will still continue to have similar characters and pieces.
    Lantern ring, guy Gardner, rip, blink TM, MM, all seem key

    I thought we were lol

    dave: *SECOND TOPIC* --------------------
    2) do we like these tournaments and the end of the season being the first of the new meta or should it be the last of the old? This year's need to establish rotation notwithstanding!

    I'll say that I would prefer Nats/Worlds to be a culmination rather than a kickoff. Although it was admittedly a breath of fresh air this year.

    isaacbv: Last of the old.

    pk2317: I agree that having it be a culmination seems more fitting, and doesn't impact people with early/late Nats

    isaacbv: But I really want to see either
    1-worlds be a constructed best of 4 rounds then cut to best of 3 elimination with draft teams

    Or

    2-worlds for drafting, constructed modern and constructed golden. 3 separate events.

    dave: I would like either of those ideas a lot.

    pk2317: Separate events would be awesome but probably take too much time

    Maybe separate Nationals, and then Worlds is some kind of Hybrid Constructed/Draft?

    dave: I would greatly prefer Nationals to be at a different site. When they changed that last year it shut me out of major events completely that year. Yeah, that's a personal bias, but so what? If we are crowning a world champ I think that one event is right, even if it is Swiss constructed and draft top. I also should say that I am not complaining about this year. I greatly preferred that rotation be implemented ASAP.

    flexei: Finally jumping in now that the work day is ending. I would also GREATLY prefer Nationals at a different site. I've said it to a few people but I _REALLY_ don't like Origins. I'm there exclusively for Dice Masters. (well and to see awesome people who play Dice Masters, of course)

    dave: What about the other side? Kickoff vs. Culmination?

    flexei: I actually prefer the kickoff. With the way the meta goes, by the time Nationals and Worlds comes along if it's the same meta we've done all year, it just feels like a slog to me. If there hadn't been Modern this year, there's no way i would have even bothered playing.

    jthomash2: Set release rate means it'll almost always be kickoff in one form or another

    flexei: Right, but when you've got meta dominant things like Bard and Ring, it makes those sets mean a little less unless there's something else that rocks the meta. Like, if it wasn't for Ring this time out, I would have been much more likely to play something off-the-wall.

    dave: Make Nats earlier, keep it current season. Then, make Worlds your Daytona 500.

    jthomash2: WWw would have been much appreciated this week.

    flexei: Oh yes. If WW would have been available that ALSO would have been wonderful and I would have felt more comfortable trying to play something off-the-wall. :slightly_smiling_face:

    Regardless, i'm currently going through a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on myself. Coulda, shoulda, woulda...

    memmek2k: I like the kickoff. I think having a completely new meta lets two kinds of players shine - the truly exceptional pilots/builders, and the people that spend the time to figure out the meta on their own. And to me, those are the two kinds of players that deserve to do well at Worlds.

    I am still completely amazed at Victor's piloting skill in our match, for a team he learned the night before. That kind of player deserves recognition. I'm very happy with my top 4 and Jared's Nats in return for the amount of time we spent playtesting in STL, thanks to Craig R constantly hounding us to practice (who also did well in Nats, I'd like to point out).

    dave: Should both be new or should there be a bigger divide between US Nats and Worlds?

    memmek2k: I'd be okay with one old, one new, no preferences on either (but have US Nats match the rest of the world pls). Would prefer them to be separate.

    i take it back. Slight preference for worlds being the kickoff. The more i think about that, the more I like it. I also think it gives a chance for unusual builds to shine

    randy: I agree with @memmek2k here. Modern rotation immediately before Worlds. Then over the next year there are various WKOs and National events.

    dave: I just can't see why Nats should keep being right before Worlds for US. I know WK is a US company but give us a relatively similar experience game wise.

    randy: I'm a bit privileged here being a quick 2 hr drive from US Nats and Worlds, so having them at the same time and place is awfully convenient for me. But I think separating them would make both of them a bigger deal. More prestigious.

    dave: Not *that* far for me either but a couple things. First if your schedule prevents one it probably prevents the other. Second, is it fair to make US Nats players go back-to-back like that?

    isaacbv: It is more convenient for me to make it a one stop drop. I would be far less likely to travel for Nats or worlds if it was separate. Even with that I went with the intent of only playing in Nats this year anyway.

    dave: If it was a couple months apart though like other places have it?

    isaacbv: So maybe

    dave: I think it diminishes the standing of the tournament. The current method that is.

    isaacbv: It also opens the playing field and allowed for some interesting adjustments in between Nats and worlds

    memmek2k: I'd like at least a month or two between, or just no changes to the current format. I would have trouble traveling if they were too close together but not at the same time.

    flexei: They should also give the West coast some love. I know it's easier for wk to keep both worlds and nats on the east coast.. . Still kinda sucks for the West coast guys to always have to shell out for the plane tickets

    randy: Yea.

    I mean, no! Keep it within driving distance for WK (and myself)

    memmek2k: lol

    isaacbv: Yeah but I'm sure they look at player base and #s for wko and win participation

    memmek2k: i mean, to hit the scale of the European Nats, we really ought to at least have one for each time zone in the US :smile:

    flexei: And the east coast is a lot more concentrated.

    isaacbv: And how far they have to travel themselves from NJ

    dave: We do get more WKOs than elsewhere at least.

    memmek2k: yes. And I think that makes up for it here; i was definitely being facetious earlier lol

    dave: I know.

    memmek2k: (mostly clarifying because it'll be on the front page later)

    dave:



    memmek2k: After listening to the latest TAZ podcast, @isaacbv thought it might be good if we all talked about our goals for the next year in terms of Dice Masters, and reflect on how the last competitive season has gone

    randy: I turned mine in early

    memmek2k: I'll start - I spent the last year focusing on our local scene, and I think it really paid off. We went from a bunch of yay-hoos in St. Louis to having the 2017 US Nationals Champ and the highest placing female player in Worlds so far (Top 4). St. Louis consistently puts several players in the Top 8 when we show up to WKOs (and three of us outright won a WKO in the last season). I think we're developing a reputation for ourselves, and I'm really proud of all the work that Craig, Craig, Craig, Matt, Jared, Heath, and Liz have put in over the last year. On top of it, we have a bunch of other local players that keep us remembering that the game is supposed to be fun, first and foremost. We even gained our first "honorary" member because Ben Caplan is crazy and drives down to STL to draft on a Tuesday night!

    To make sure I give credit where credit is due, we couldn't have this fantastic scene without the hard work of Craig and Heath, our local TOs. They've put a ton of time and effort into making sure we have good places to play and good prizes to win.

    For the next year, I want to help keep that spirit up. I would love STL to become a consistent two-pod draft scene. We have several newer players in the last few months that show a lot of promise, and I want to make sure they have the resources to succeed if they choose to invest in this game. And if we win a few more tournaments along the way, well, I certainly won't complain.

    pk2317: My work schedule means I can't attend most of the events that take place in my local area. So my goal is to try and use online resources to encourage the game and growth, and maybe try to have some "special events" (on days I can come) for release day drafts, etc.

    I also did considerably better competitively last year than I ever expected, so I'd like to see if I can keep that up :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    flexei: Our store has had pretty big ups and downs over the last couple years, to the point where it was just me showing up for over a month. It was really rough and super depressing because I love this game a lot. Well, with work we've gotten ourselves back up in player count. Now we pretty regularly get 6 to 8, but I want more. I want that number in the double digits...

    The competitive scene is great and all, but really, it's my local store that means the most to me. I'm very much an introvert, and I really don't put myself out there that much, but I need to get over it and evangelize this game even more than I do now.

    Maybe I need to make a demo Dice Masters game part of our intern orientation at my job. :wink:

    isaacbv: After listening to the TAZ cast this week it got me thinking about my own goals for the game and where I want my 2017-18 season to go. Winning the first wko this year was awesome but not doing well in Nats or World's quals was a challenge. It got me thinking about the idea of success vs failure. What constitutes one over the other. Do I fail if I lose? In the words of JT, what does "Dominance" mean for me personally?

    So that is the question I am trying to answer right now. I don't think my losses were missplays or poor teambuilding or reps-ask Mike and he will tell you they ultimately came down to rolls. Rolls that more often than not did not go my way. So is that really failure on my part? Self-reflection tells me no with all of that in mind.

    rjretro: Is there a way to eliminate the "luck" of bad rolls?

    isaacbv: Not enough. I don't think so, anyway, when it is at the level we play at. Eliminate the tilt, mental mistakes, poor decisions and then you are left to the chance factors of draws and rolls.

    whisperni: I think that is a difference from this year and last. Last year some decks were just better decks, and won if you played it versus other decks. There is a lot less good control this year, so the decks were a lot closer in strength. It came down more to rolls.

    isaacbv: The best you can do to mitigate bad rolls moves you away from your win con (Felicity) or gives your opponent the same options (Parallax)

    And honestly I feel like I have proven myself. I have reached a pinnacle in this game few have or will. And I'm OK with the fact that it was skill and luck meeting in the perfect storm when it did.

    My goals with this game honestly reflect what it can mean to further grow and evangelize this game. Locally, nationally and internationally. Trying to figure out how to make that measurable

    rjretro: Also need to keep improving. People will catch you.

    randy: I feel ya @isaacbv . I've said on TAZ that I feel my team this year for Nats was just the bad call. But even when I make the right call, and I lose because of the randomness of dice, it's hard not to get down on myself.

    isaacbv: I totally felt the "people will catch you" aspect this year. I think people that come back to this game will be surprised at the level of play going on right now in the game.

    rjretro: Not me. I was never good.

    isaacbv: Lol

    You were western Canadian good.

    rjretro: Hell yes I was. Now I struggle remembering rules. Now I'm just Manitoba good.

    isaacbv: That's solid though

    rjretro: Hahahahaha I need to re-read them.

    isaacbv: Is that your goal for the season?

    rjretro: My goal is to not go into debt getting my little cup stuff.

    isaacbv: Good goal

    rjretro: Yeah. Haha. Lots of reading to do.

    dave: Isaac that's a great point, and that's where tilt comes in for me.

    isaacbv: Which part?

    randy: Making the right/smart choice and not seeing the rewards?

    rjretro: Yeah, that's what I was wondering too. I love conversations like this. Analyzing your play is always huge.

    dave: When it feels like I lose because it's out of my control, and also what Randy said too.

    isaacbv: Ah yes.

    rjretro: And then you tilt afterward?

    isaacbv: But I'm OK with losing like when it is the dice rolls and the draws

    dave: Yes; it can be hard to feel like your decisions don't matter, even if you made the "right" play.

    rjretro: As long as it doesn't affect the next game you play, that's the best time to tilt.

    As opposed to tilting halfway through.

    dave: Objectively, yes, it's just randomness; but to lose a great matchup where you should be favored because you couldn't hit anything but your opponent hit Yahtzee after Yahtzee is tough and demoralizing to experience.

    rjretro: Yeah, I think that's fair.

    I hate playing pretty perfect in poker for 7 hours only to lose on a coinflip.

    isaacbv: But if I lose to a coin flip I don't feel as bad about it. That being said, in this game I have won the coin flip situations more often than not

    rjretro: Lucky duck.

    isaacbv: I go back to my game with Mike Plumb, it was a literal coin flip. His ring comes up he wins, if not I win next turn. But every other game I played that weekend went the other way

    rjretro: That's amazing. The question is, could you say DM has become a luck-based game at the highest level?

    isaacbv: Tilt kicked in a lot more when it was "I go first I win"

    rjretro: Or is there still enough of an edge where you can beat MP more often than not?

    isaacbv: There is still room for error at the highest level. It happens more often than not

    rjretro: Cool, cool.

    isaacbv: My final game against Tony for wko3 he had to not lose but he pushed to win which opened up just enough of a window for me to win and take it to overtime. There are plenty of mental errors and misplays and like TAZ pointed out this week-those are very costly at this level.

    rjretro: I wouldn't mind sitting and talking strategy with you sometime. Could be fun.

    isaacbv: I know I've come a long way since @dave first brought me on to the team-it's been an interesting and amazing journey

    isaacbv: Setting my own goals for this year, Success/dominance to me will be defined as:
    1. Did my local scene grow? It has become stagnant and I would love to add 8+ more people consistently
    2. Did I continue to feel like my teambuilding and play style grew? Am I able to keep up with my competitors?
    3. Do I understand the meta and can I still make good reads on it?
    4. Is my impact on the overall larger community positive in nature?
    5. What is my legacy in DM? If the game still exists in 10 years what is my place in its story?

    randy: #5 is interesting.

    isaacbv: We all have a piece in the story. I want mine in every aspect of my life to be positive in nature that reflects who I am and what I believe. 4&5 tie together I hope. Heck, 1-4 tie to 5

    rjretro: I think #5 is pretty solid for you.

    isaacbv: I think we all have a place in the story of this game. I wonder what the overall theme is for us all individually and corporately

    rjretro: I'm just happy with the people I've met through the site. Looking forward to coming back.

    randy: That return pop is gonna be huge

    rjretro: Hahahaha

    Based on Stu's reaction to the podcast, I'm inclined to agree.

    theconductr: So heres my reflection on the past season. I really cant complain at all. In almost every respect it was fantastic. We started a new scene at a store and regularly see 6-10 people and have had up to 18 and 19 at events for team drafts and our PDC draft. We did a 4 store Legacy Tournament that lasted 3 months and brought players from all over the area together. I was able to win 3 WKOs and take 2nd Place at Nationals. So from a local and national level, I feel things went great. For this coming season the goals are:

    1. Grow the local scene to a regular player base of 10-12

    2. Keep growing the local scene players that want to compete at the highest level and help them qual for nationals and travel to it. This year we had 6 qual and 1 other than myself travel.

    3. Grow the legacy tournament to include stores from all of Texas and possibly OK and have a big blowout Legacy Finals.

    4. Top 4 all WKO Tournaments I play in.

    5. Compete in Mexico Nationals and make the Top 8 Cut.

    6. Keep brewing. I know Im a good team builder, so I want to keep those gears moving. I mean, we have a ton of sets coming out soon!

    7. Travel to Ohio/Detroit and show them what Texas is all about!

    8. Dont get distracted by the baby boy on the way.. Stay on Target! lol

    pk2317: Good luck with that one. You may have some "free time" right after he's born if you take paternity leave, but you'll be too tired to take advantage of it :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    theconductr: Yeah, I know. A boy can dream though :wink:

    isaacbv: Did you mean "Don't let the game distract you from him?"

    theconductr: Yeah.. that lol

    isaacbv: And yes good luck on #7 as well.

    theconductr: I took out 3 of the tank at nats. I think Ill be ok :wink:

    isaacbv: Team draft event. Ohio vs Texas.

    theconductr: boom

    isaacbv: I'm not talking about the Detroiters in the shark tank. Some of us go there to get work done as well

    theconductr: Oh, I get work done.

    isaacbv: What about our growth as a site? We haven't talked about that. Site goals.

    dave: I want the site to be more functional and include some good QOL features and updates. I'd also like us to be able to do more than just DM. But updates have to be the focus or adding new areas just becomes cumbersome. In short, we all know the site has some holes and while it is currently sufficient, I don't think we are satisfied with "sufficient".

    dave: Since others are commenting on the community goals too, I just want to find more ways that I/we can benefit the community. Maybe a way to find more opportunities for those of us who aren't in active pockets and can't play in stores as often as we'd like.

    theconductr: I think the virtual worlds thing is awesome. Maybe we do that every quarter or 6 months? People are all about watching the matches as well. I really think we could get some legs out of broadcasting us playing meta teams and walking through the turns.

    dave: I want to do that but cast it while it happens. That actually shouldn't be too hard to do.

    randy: Have a weekly timeslot when we stream/post the game. Our TRP challenge thing would be great, but do it with regularity. Maybe some kind of league?

    dave: Right now it's just Swiss so not much can be seen with it.

    But yes, Randy, I'd like to see if something like that can happen.

    rjretro: What is Virtual Worlds and how do we watch? [Ed.; Troy (Yort) put on a "Virtual Worlds" tournament over on the Dice Masters: Unlimited facebook group. It's currently in Round 2 of swiss. Head over there and check it out! It's in the past events)

    shadowmeld: My Goals for the next year:
    1) Continue to grow my local scene and keep the store I play at invested in DM.
    2) Keep producing TPA as a source and destination for light hearted comedy and casual formats that use inexpensive team builds.
    3) Continue the Riddlers Rumble outreach and work on Marvel and DC only lists.
    4) Travel to a local WKO and Qualify for Nationals.
    5) Return to Origins again this year and make either of the top two cuts.
    6) Finish my set collections before those sets rotate to Golden Age.



    Thoughts or comments on our goals? Something we missed? Let us know!
    Comments 2 Comments
    1. archivist's Avatar
      archivist -
      Those of us on the West coast of the U.S. still enjoy reading and listening to you Mid-Western-centric folks.

      Edit: Understand Paul is also on the West Coast.
    1. gkpon66's Avatar
      gkpon66 -
      So many good things to discuss! Just not enough time to sort thru, retype and comment on. I'll have to see what I can do this weekend. Gary