• June 23-25 Rules Forum Update

    It’s funny. When I started writing for The Reserve Pool, I didn’t feel like I had anything “official” to offer. So I just wrote about my Organized Play events I attended. I was the break from the rules and strategy and gave a first person experience. Now, with the more writers contributing, giving more experiences and analysis, that leaves me with more of the nuts and bolts posts. I’m not complaining. Just an observation. Before I was the “here, take a break from the rigid facts, and listen to my story” kind of guy and now, I’m the “here’s some facts, let’s look back at globals, here’s some rules” kind of guy.

    Speaking of rules, we’ve gotten some serious Rules Forum updates. So I’m going to go through most of them, and touch on the most important or interesting ones. Keep in mind, I’m writing this Thursday (6/25) night. So this article is current, as of then. Here we go. I’m going to group them together the best I can. Let’s start off with…

    Overcrush

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5947
    This is good. We learned that damage from Overcrush is not considered damage from an ability. Overcrush merely affects the way a character deals its damage. Good to know.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5936
    We knew the reasoning behind this one (one source triggering an effect in multiple ways only triggers the effect once). What we learned is that damage a character does to its blocker, and leftover Overcrush damage is considered the same source and simultaneous, even though you can only deal Overcrush damage AFTER you KO your blocker… I’m not disagreeing with the ruling… it’s just difficult to rationalize the timing.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5724
    There was some debate on this one, thought this is what I figured. All damage is dealt to a character, THEN leftover damage is dealt.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5970
    This one was spelled out pretty clearly in the rulebook. If the blocking character isn’t KO’d (or removed or something) then the player takes no damage.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=6974
    Wow. Talk about powerful. I have this card, and knew it seemed good, but wow. If I give him Overcrush, he would deal his leftover damage to my opponent, then deal his full attack to my opponent, then remain in the field. Dang.

    When

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5946
    For what it seems, the word “when” refers to the instance that something happens. The means it is a reaction based ability. You can only react to something once, unless otherwise stated.

    Prismatic Spray

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5946
    Nullifies Loki Gem Keeper. Plain and simple.

    Catwoman

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5922
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5934
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5965
    When an ability tells you to “draw and field” something, assume it means level 1 face.

    Targeting/Naming

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5901
    When you “name” a character, it is not targeting. It would seem that only dice in play can be “targeted”. So what about uncommon Cerebro? Doesn’t that target a character card? Oh well. A question for another day.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...265c5ae4defe02
    Any ability that requires a set number of characters to be affected, is considered to target. “Choose one character”, “choose two characters”, etc. They all target. So what doesn’t target? Abilities that say “all” or abilities that buff specific affiliations. Although it is checking for a specific requirement, it’s not “targeting”.

    Beholder

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=6973
    Ha. So it looks like that Beholder must use all or none of the basic actions. So even if the opponent does have Imprisoned, and uses it to imprison all of my characters, If I bring Fireball, they have to use it too, triggering the Imprisoned to end. Excellent.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5903
    Use an action die means that you activate the action as per the corresponding card. Pretty straight forward.

    And my personal favorite…

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=4586
    This comes up just about every round of questions being answered.

    I skipped over a bunch of them. I know. Some have been answered before, and I’m not going to go over everything here. I think I hit the important ones. If you’re really curious to see what the other answered questions were, go here.

    Roll on.
    Comments 20 Comments
    1. digitallimit's Avatar
      digitallimit -
      "For what it seems, the word “when” refers to the instance that something happens. The means it is a reaction based ability. You can only react to something once, unless otherwise stated."

      How does that work with multiple Black Canary dice, though?
    1. digitallimit's Avatar
      digitallimit -
      http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5903
      Use an action die means that you activate the action as per the corresponding card. Pretty straight forward.
      It's actually a little more specific than that:

      To “use a basic action die” means to use that basic action die’s ability after rolling an action (i.e., non-energy) face on the die.
      Which means that Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts is not triggered by Beholder: Master Aberration.





      Or maybe it is, but this makes me wonder.
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -
      Quote: " If I bring Fireball, they have to use it too, triggering the Imprisoned to end. Excellent."

      wouldn't the Beholder'er just use fireball first?
    1. Randy's Avatar
      Randy -
      Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
      Quote: " If I bring Fireball, they have to use it too, triggering the Imprisoned to end. Excellent."

      wouldn't the Beholder'er just use fireball first?
      Yea... but what happens the next time Beholder attacks? This means your opponent can't just keep triggering Imprisoned after Imprisoned without freeing everything in between.
    1. pk2317's Avatar
      pk2317 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
      Yea... but what happens the next time Beholder attacks? This means your opponent can't just keep triggering Imprisoned after Imprisoned without freeing everything in between.
      I would assume each time they would use Fireball first then Imprisoned, so while they would release them, they would then immediately re-Imprison them. No?
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -
      Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
      I would assume each time they would use Fireball first then Imprisoned, so while they would release them, they would then immediately re-Imprison them. No?
      I think the beholder ability(using all 4) has to resolve completely, before the triggered release would happen.

      so do you then have to keep separate the ones imprisoned this turn?
    1. alleyviper's Avatar
      alleyviper -
      Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
      You'll notice in the Master Aberration ruling that Master Aberration triggers Angel and Flash, so it stands to reason that it triggers Strange, too.
    1. Necromanticer's Avatar
      Necromanticer -
      Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
      I think the beholder ability(using all 4) has to resolve completely, before the triggered release would happen.

      so do you then have to keep separate the ones imprisoned this turn?
      Not quite. They all have to be activated, but as per every case of simultaneous occurrences, the active player chooses the order of resolution. As such, they could choose Fireball, resolve it, which would be damage your opponent. This would free all the imprisoned character. Then go on to Imprison them and use the remaining two actions.
    1. Necromanticer's Avatar
      Necromanticer -
      Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
      Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts is not triggered by Beholder: Master Aberration.
      Actually, he is. Beholder definitively procs Doctor Strange as per this ruling:
      http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=6973

      It explicitly states that Beholder would proc Angel's effect and the wording used in Doctor Strange's effect is the same. As such, Doctor Strange + Beholder = minimum 8 damage to your opponent (12 if you bring Power Bolt and Magic Missile).
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -
      Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
      Not quite. They all have to be activated, but as per every case of simultaneous occurrences, the active player chooses the order of resolution. As such, they could choose Fireball, resolve it, which would be damage your opponent. This would free all the imprisoned character. Then go on to Imprison them and use the remaining two actions.
      I understand that they are simultaneous and the active player chooses the order, but the release of prisoners is a triggered event. does it not trigger AFTER the beholders ability resolves? my understanding is that you can't pause in the middle of 1 ability to do another. just because beholder does 4 things doesn't change it from being 1 ability.
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -
      if beholders ability was a "this turn" "continuous" , then I agree. but it's not. it says immediately...
    1. Necromanticer's Avatar
      Necromanticer -
      Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
      I understand that they are simultaneous and the active player chooses the order, but the release of prisoners is a triggered event. does it not trigger AFTER the beholders ability resolves? my understanding is that you can't pause in the middle of 1 ability to do another. just because beholder does 4 things doesn't change it from being 1 ability.
      "When" abilities are reactive and trigger the moment their conditions are met. They interrupt the normal order of play. Just as I can pay a to trigger Doomcaliber Knight's global while assigning attackers or Nova would deal damage to my opponent the moment he was hit with a Fireball in the attack step, so too does the Imprisoned release trigger the exact moment that the opposing player takes damage. Even as the active player, you're not allowed to dictate reactive triggers because they are resolved at the exact time of their trigger.

      Think of it this way: I can use the Magic Missile global 3 times on my turn to trigger my level one Hulk - Green Goliath, the first time he takes damage, he will immediately react to that damage and deal 3 damage to my opponent's field. If my opponent has a Hulk - Jade Giant out, it will immediately react to that damage in turn and knock my own Hulk. This is because reactions resolve differently than regular effects. Beholder only states immediately so that you know you trigger it at that moment rather than at the usual time for assigning attacker effects.
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -
      BEWD

      EDIT: huh? What? I have no idea what BEWD h has to do with this conversation... sorry, had just woke up...

      but what about cone of cold?
      can I pause between selecting characters to trigger "when damaged" effects?

      I still feel as if there is some rule about completely resolving effects before moving into others, just can't pinpoint a good example...

      http://www.thereservepool.com/thread...lve+completely
    1. SarkhanMad's Avatar
      SarkhanMad -


      so if I use this to force a character other than beholder to attack, is beholder now NOT the first die assigned to attack...? (I don't think this works, but a fun idea!)
    1. pk2317's Avatar
      pk2317 -
      Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post


      so if I use this to force a character other than beholder to attack, is beholder now NOT the first die assigned to attack...? (I don't think this works, but a fun idea!)
      No because the active player still chooses which characters he will assign to attack and in which order, Mr Fantastic just says "one of the ones you choose has to be this guy."
    1. Mathrin's Avatar
      Mathrin -
      I find it amusing that my three part Catwoman question only had the first part printed and answered.
    1. IgwanaRob's Avatar
      IgwanaRob -
      Yeah, I loved that Obelisk card at first sight, but the combo almost seemed too good to be true so I had to ask. Add in Gobblin Attack Force with Green Goliath and you can easily Johnny Swarm into a realtivly fast kill. Toss in Webslinger to speed things along, and Kwonnon for spot reoval and you still have room for some lockdown like RoM or Jinzo.
    1. geneinkc's Avatar
      geneinkc -
      http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5947
      This is good. We learned that damage from Overcrush is not considered damage from an ability. Overcrush merely affects the way a character deals its damage. Good to know.
      Wait a second, that's not how I read it at all. Overcrush is an ability, they even refer to it as such in their response. What they said was that the damage to the blocking character is not Overcrush damage, therefore Magic Helmet doesn't protect the character from it. The player, however, does take damage from the Overcrush ability, if there is any.

      This is important, because it means that Treant's global should still work.

      Global: Pay Shield. Prevent the next 2 damage that you (the player) take from an ability or action die this turn.
    1. digitallimit's Avatar
      digitallimit -
      Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
      Actually, he is. Beholder definitively procs Doctor Strange as per this ruling:
      http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=6973

      It explicitly states that Beholder would proc Angel's effect and the wording used in Doctor Strange's effect is the same. As such, Doctor Strange + Beholder = minimum 8 damage to your opponent (12 if you bring Power Bolt and Magic Missile).
      Interesting! Thanks Necro; these rules continue to be hard to nail down.
    1. digitallimit's Avatar
      digitallimit -
      Quote Originally Posted by geneinkc View Post
      Wait a second, that's not how I read it at all. Overcrush is an ability, they even refer to it as such in their response. What they said was that the damage to the blocking character is not Overcrush damage, therefore Magic Helmet doesn't protect the character from it. The player, however, does take damage from the Overcrush ability, if there is any.

      This is important, because it means that Treant's global should still work.
      But only specifically in the case where a character with Overcrush is blocked by a character with lower defense than the attacking character's attack.