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Dave

Opinion: What do YOU think?

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Astute reader Andrew sparked a conversation with an email that he sent, and the three of us couldn't come to a consensus. This issue is not explicitly stated in the rule book or the FAQ so far as we can tell, so let us know in the comments what you think the correct solution is here. Let's have some fun.
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The issue is this: Say you use the Silver Surfer global to pull a die. Your bag is empty, so you refill it with the dice in used.

Is the shield that you use to pay for Silver Surfer's global among the dice that are placed back in your bag?


On the one hand...

In at least one part in the rules, the rules state that when paying for something, you move the die to the used pile and then you activate whatever that something happens to be.

This is pretty straightforward.


On the other hand...

Characters with "when fielded" abilities that target dice can't target dice that paid for them. This is at the bottom of page seven.

Further, because you resolve basic actions before moving that die into the used pile (found on mid-seven), then odd things like Gearing Up drawing itself from the bag can't happen.

So why would this be different for actions?


What do you think?

I had been playing the latter way - the way that the die is essentially in "limbo" until the ability is resolved, much like the actions are.

Others are definitely playing the other way.

Which do you think is correct, and why? Tell us in the comments!
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Comments

  1. rlrthesecond imported's Avatar
    Surfer is a big part of my strategy and I've always moved the shield energy to the used pile first, then activate the ability. It didn't even dawn on me that there could be another way to understand the global. I think I would prefer it the other way though... In the few instances where you would trigger a bag refill with Surfer's global, that one extra sidekick die would just dilute the dice bag and lower my chances of getting a worthwhile character.
  2. paradox1995 imported's Avatar
    Same as above poster. I've always put the sidekick back into the bag as well. I'd agree as well that it'd be more efficient to leave it out though. I've played in 2 tourneys and used that global extensively and I've never had anyone call me on it. Common consensus in my group is it goes into the bag.
  3. Riptide imported's Avatar
    I agree with the above posters. It never even occurred to me that the die wouldn't end up in the bag, though it would be nice if didn't.
  4. Stephen Mitchell imported's Avatar
    I agree with the above posters as well. Use the energy, put the die in the used pile. If you have to draw a die from an empty bag, it needs to be refilled with dice from the used pile. All the dice. Let's not forget that occasionally you'll have a character roll as energy and you don't want it sitting alone in the used pile waiting for your bag to empty out again.
  5. Dice Anon imported's Avatar
    I agree with all above comments.
    The card doesn't state to do anything with the die used to pay for the global as other cards do for abilities like fielding, as stated by Dave in the post.
    For comparison purposes, let's take Ghost Rider - Brimstone Biker:
    "When fielded, select a die from your used pile and place it into your prep area (you cannot select a die that paid to field this die)."
    This card text expressly prohibits the use of the purchasing die.
    Silver Surfers global contains no such text.
    Dave, you stated under the "on the other hand section: So why would this be different for actions?" I assume you meant "So why would this be different for globals?" Because it isn't an action.
    If you did mean "so why would this be different for actions?" My answer would be because the rule book says so.
    My ruling in any tournament, unless WizKids states otherwise in a future FAQ:
    Spend the die to activate the global, refill the empty bag entirely with all dice in the used pile, and pull one die from the bag and place it in the prep area.
  6. Norman Barth imported's Avatar
    I agree with the article author - I think dice that are used to pay for an effect are considered "used" but aren't in the Used Pile until that effect has been resolved.