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Thread: Wolverine: The Best There Is

  1. #1

    Wolverine: The Best There Is

    Looking back at some of the older characters, this one jumped out at me as potentially having a killer deck built around him.



    While Formerly Weapon Ten is hailed as the most reliable Wolverine, this one might be worth considering with some of the new tools at our disposal, namely access to Overcrush through Anger Issues.

    Think about it; this effect doesn't actually modify his attack value, it just doubles the damage once the damage is calculated. So in theory, this multiplier should be applied after any boosts to his attack. Assuming we bring something to the table like Goblin Attack Force to ensure that he becomes blocked, the stage is set to potentially end the game in one superpowered blow to an unsuspecting sidekick.

    Even on his weakest face, 5 becomes 8 after using Anger Issues. All you'd need to do is roll 3 fists on that same turn to use Cone of Cold's global twice, buffing him up to 12 attack before doubling the damage for a whopping 24 damage in one swing. That's possible on the third turn of the game if you play your dice right.

    So far i'm looking at something along these lines for a build;

    Wolverine: The Best There Is (4)
    Black Widow: Tsarina (4)
    Hulk: Jade Giant (4)
    Prismatic Spray: Lesser Spell (4)
    Professor X: Trainer (1)
    Doomcaliber Knight: Fiendish Fighter (1)
    Goblin Attack Force: Goblin Squad (1)
    Red Dragon: Lesser Dragon (1)
    BAC: Anger Issues, Cone of Cold

    The goal of the team is to get Wolverine out on the same turn that Anger Issues hits. If you can pull that off on turn 3-4, we've probably won the game already. However we need to assume that we aren't going to be lucky enough to draw out both dice right out the gate, so Tsarina provides a secondary source of damage should we need it. She also forces Constantine to think twice about who he names for his effect. Speak of the devil, I threw Prismatic Spray into the mix to make sure that nothing gets in our way when we need to close the door quickly. I wasn't entirely sure what to throw in for the last character, so I ultimately went with Jade Giant to deal with any board control we might lose to Green Goliath. PXG shouldn't need any explanation, and Goblin Squad ensures that juicy 20+ damage attack from Wolverine will hit when we need it to. Fiendish Fighter provides even more insurance that Wolverine connects for that damage. Finally, Red Dragon speeds up the team by bring those critical Anger Issues into the game for that potential third turn victory, on top of giving us an easy buy on Prismatic Spray.

    That's the idea in a nutshell. Let me know what you guys think!

    EDIT: Added a link to the team in teambuilder, for those who prefer a visual
    http://www.dicemastersdb.com/team-bu...3051-1;3048-1;

  2. #2
    I've also always liked this Wolvie card, and have used it to great effect, but generally only against casual players who don't spend a lot of time formulating strategy and building teams. I like this team you have here...but the answer to any Overcrush strategy is the global on Smash or Selective Shield. With the proliferation of Overcrush through Anger Issues, my bet is we'll see these two BACs make a comeback as part of a counter strategy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatman View Post
    I've also always liked this Wolvie card, and have used it to great effect, but generally only against casual players who don't spend a lot of time formulating strategy and building teams. I like this team you have here...but the answer to any Overcrush strategy is the global on Smash or Selective Shield. With the proliferation of Overcrush through Anger Issues, my bet is we'll see these two BACs make a comeback as part of a counter strategy.
    I think that's why the Doom caliber Knight is in there so that Wolvie can't be targeted by those globals...same with distraction.

  4. #4
    It's really a question of picking your poison. You can't fit a counter for everything in so pick what seems the biggest threat or two and see what happens.

  5. #5
    Not to make this a rules post, but I'm not sure the Wolverine card works the way the team would assume that it does. If Wolverine is blocked, then he deals double damage to those characters that block him. Once that damage is resolved, any Overcrush damage would be what was left.

    Example: Batman shoves a 3/3 Robin in front of a rampaging Wolvie (on his level 3 side). Wolverine deals 2 damage to Robin (which becomes 4), and his remaining 9 (8 - 2 + 3 for the Basic Action) go through.

    Otherwise, the card would say double his attack value when he is blocked. At least, that's my thinking. I'm interested to know how this works, however, because I would love to see an angry, car throwing Wolverine running over everybody.

  6. #6
    I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. The 24 damage just ensures you're probably hitting that magic "20", regardless of what's blocking.

  7. #7
    Actually, that damage is going to be dealt just to the characters and is not combat damage that can be overcrush'd. And I believe that it would be dealt between blockers being assigned and global usage.

  8. #8
    Really? I'm confused.

    Anger Issues says "damage dealt in excess of blockers' health is dealt to opponent". There must be some mechanic I am missing. Help?

  9. #9
    I was under the impression that Overcrush was specifically about combat damage. But I don't have the rules handy. The reminder text isn't always the full rule, just a helper.

  10. #10
    The way that I read the card, he's dealing the double damage to the characters. So 1 damage would equal 2 and so forth. But, even though I've been told otherwise, I'm not a character. So if Wolvie shreds my blockers, he would only deal the remaining damage at a 1 to 1 rate to me (the opponent). Again, that's how I'm reading the ability.

    This WAS a card designed in a pre-Overcrush set, though, so it's difficult to tell what the intent of the ability is.

  11. #11
    Hmm... I would hope it works like the way OP described. If not, well... that's WizKids for you.

  12. #12
    All damage is dealt simultaneously, so we aren't dealing one damage at a time to the blocked until it is KOed, then dealling non-doubled damage to the opponent. An easier way to look at it is this, if the character did not have overcrush, how much damage would it deal? (24) Ok, any unnessicary damage (23 vs a sidekick) is transfered to your opponent. Remember, overcrush is not part of any damage calculation, it is just instructions on what to do AFTER damage is calculated.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Diabolik View Post
    I think that's why the Doom caliber Knight is in there so that Wolvie can't be targeted by those globals...same with distraction.
    Oh yes...silly me...sorry about that.

    Isn't it true that any attacking character does "All" their attack value in damage to any blocking character, even though they may not need all of it? So in the previous example, Wolvie would deal all his damage to Robin "(Normal Attack + Anger Issues Bonus) * 2 for Wolvie' ability". Then you would say..."Well, Robin only needed 2 to be KO'd...so all of the left over would hit the opponent."

    The total damage is calculated when Robin is KO'd...the rest hits the opponent...No?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    All damage is dealt simultaneously, so we aren't dealing one damage at a time to the blocked until it is KOed, then dealling non-doubled damage to the opponent. An easier way to look at it is this, if the character did not have overcrush, how much damage would it deal? (24) Ok, any unnessicary damage (23 vs a sidekick) is transfered to your opponent. Remember, overcrush is not part of any damage calculation, it is just instructions on what to do AFTER damage is calculated.
    Not if this is a "when blocked" ability, in which case it fires before the "deal damage" part of the step.

  15. #15
    Agreed, but this wolverine doesn't have a when blocked ability, it has an if blocked ability.
    The difference is similar to the conversation we were having about weapon 10. If blocked means he doubles any sources of damage he would deal to his blocker. When blocked would mean he either doubles his attack stat or makes a second attack, depending on wording, but neither are the case here.

  16. #16
    So, if a character had an ability that allowed them to deal double damage to a character as well as overcrush, then if the defending player was dumb enough to block with a character, the attacking character would be buffed with double damage even though the overflow isn't damaging the character but the defending player?

    If this is how it works, then I think the OP is correct. This version of Wolvie may become the mutant of choice for many teams.

    Edit: I don't mean to come off as incredulous, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how this works. Also, I'm sitting here at work all day today, and want something much more interesting to think about.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Agreed, but this wolverine doesn't have a when blocked ability, it has an if blocked ability.
    The difference is similar to the conversation we were having about weapon 10. If blocked means he doubles any sources of damage he would deal to his blocker. When blocked would mean he either doubles his attack stat or makes a second attack, depending on wording, but neither are the case here.
    .

    EDIT: I see it now. I was making a comparison to something else but yeah, I see it. Though I'm not sure what FWX conversation you're referring to.

  18. #18
    http://www.thereservepool.com/thread...ph-other-cards

    This one. TL;DR: FW10 has a when declared as an attacker ability, despite an imprecise wording.

  19. #19
    This is a new 3rd turn win.....

    Edit: depending on how the ability is ruled...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    http://www.thereservepool.com/thread...ph-other-cards

    This one. TL;DR: FW10 has a when declared as an attacker ability, despite an imprecise wording.
    Ah, gotcha. Hadn't read that one.

  21. #21
    Woah, just woke up to all these replies!

    And yeah, the wording is definitely something to consider. The thing I like about it is that as Shadowmeld pointed out, the effect should be treated as an 'if' blocked ability, not 'when' blocked. That should let him apply all the steroids before the multiplier is applied, which is what got me onto the idea in the first place.

    And as far as how this would work in damage calculation, i'm pretty sure that any excess damage dealt by overcrush would also be treated as damage to that character. It's damage dealt in excess of the blocker's health, and even though this is a unique situation with the ability I see no reason it shouldn't work out.

    Looks like TBTI might turn out to live up to his name...

  22. #22
    I'd love to see a ruling on this because I could totally see WK ruling that it works as Narwhal suggested earlier but the more I ruminate on it the more I think that, without a ruling, the most literal interpretation is as Shadowmeld described in the 24 damage vs. a sidekick example.

  23. #23
    So here's two different definitions for overcrush;

    1) From Anger Issues: Damage dealt in excess of blockers' health is dealt to opponent

    2) From JUL Rulebook: When attacking, if this character knocks out all of its blockers, it deals any leftover damage to your opponent.

    In the first case, the effect is defined with very little room for misinterpretation; every point of damage you deal to a blocker that exceeds their health is going straight to your opponent's face.

    However the second case is a little more ambiguously worded. Personally, I read the second as a more redundant phrasing of the first. The damage dealt to a character is applied before overcrush is taken into effect. So if Wolverine would be dealing double damage to the character blocking me, it seems kind of ridiculous to think that this damage would somehow be reduced after it was already calculated.

    I guess what I'm saying is that i feel damage should be static here; once calculated, there shouldn't be any reason for it to change unless specifically modified by a game effect. If WK were to rule against that logic, they'd need a heck of a good argument...

  24. #24
    Rulebook > reminder text. However, FAQ/Rules Forum > Rulebook.

    There are rulings on Overcrush that clarify that the attacking character doesn't have to be the one to do the knocking out. As long as an attacker has no more blockers that haven't been assigned lethal damage, Overcrush damage rolls on through. (not relevant to the current conversation, but definitely tangential!)

  25. #25
    I think that everyone has made the valid judgement on Wolverine. This is a really cool idea BTW
    Edit also maybe Thousand Dragon Rare from Yugioh. It would let you buy Onslaught first turn and leave 2 possible masks for ramp.
    Last edited by Vapedaveb; 05-04-2015 at 12:09 AM.

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