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Thread: Thoughts on Prismatic Spray Interactions

  1. #1

    Thoughts on Prismatic Spray Interactions

    I already subsubmitted a rules forum question about this that's awaiting an answer, but now some other thoughts have trickled into my mind and I'm curious what we think of how Prismatic Spray - Lesser Spell works with characters who have ongoing effects:

    If my opponent has Gem Keeper active, if I use Prismatic Spray can I field whatever character Loki is blocking?

    How about the Lex Luthor who blocks purchasing?

    If a Gelatinous Cube has captured one of my dice will a Spray free that die?

    Thanks to the discussion here about Hellblazer, will Spray end Constantines' s effect, or has it already gone off and into effect by the time I have the chance to even use Spray?

    I feel its especially ambiguous since the card does not read "cancel any associated active effects" or something similar. It creates a chicken and egg scenario where, say, the trigger to be able to field my characters is Loki leaving the field. He hasn't left the field but after Spray is used there is no text linked to him being in the field. So what takes precedence?

  2. #2
    This is a very good question about active effects and necessary reference. This could honestly go down either way, but I would err on the side of looking at triggers. Most of the control card you mention have triggers that say when fielded or during your Clear and Draw step. While Prismatic spray can turn on continuous effects, and can prevent new triggers from activation, it is my opinion that IF a trigger has already been effected, Prismatic Spray doesn't turn off that effect.

    Think of it this way, when you trigger a duration effect, write it down o a scrap of paper and put it next to the board. It is no longer a card or a card text, it is a condition that is applied. Write when the effect ends, as part of that slip of paper, and treat the effect as a stand alone effect. Most of these slips of paper end when the turn ends (like "when fielded get +1A for the rest of the turn") but some (Loki, Deadman, Joker) end when the character dies. The effect has already been triggered, and can't be cancelled just by playing Prismatic Spray. A similar example would be Rogue's Capture effect. It ends at the end of the turn, but if Rogue was Prismatic Sprayed she wouldn't end her capture early.

    Hope that helps.

  3. #3
    Part of the problem is that I could easily see a ruling where WK says that Rogue's capture would end if she were Prismatic Sprayed (allowing of course that it were even possible on her turn).

    I'm certainly inclined to agree and say that effects like Loki's last until their respective conditions are met but it's tough to playtest things without knowing for sure.

  4. #4
    I agree for the most part, once an effect has triggered it should still be applied even if the text is wiped.

    However in the instance of constantine, I think prismatic spray gets around him. The only thing he does at the beginning of the turn is name a character. The actual effect isn't applied until after the named character is fielded, so assuming you use prismatic spray before you field the named character, the effact should never get a chance to trigger.

    With the general consensus of the thread about him, people seem to lean towards his effect sticking around even if hes KOd. That's all fine and good, but if THIS can't stop him then literally nothing can.

    Basically, this has to beat him. Or else I'm going to go cry now.

  5. #5
    It's an exercise in semantics (as it always is with WK). My gut would be to argue that Hellblazer's abilty doesn't take effect when a character is fielded, it is simply perpetually in effect. The named character would essentially enter the field with no text (especially since the card reads "ignore" not "loses").

    What gums that up is the fact that all copies of that character may not attack due to Hellblazer's ability. Copies already in the field would otherwise be allowed to attack unless another copy of them is fielded, which essentially makes that a trigger.

    So would Spray negate none of Hellblazer's ability, only the portion that prevents attacks, or all of his ability? It's messy.

  6. #6
    On Constantine: the UK Nats Judge will be judging that Spray does negate the second part of his ability, because it is triggered and the text must exist for the trigger to fire.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Once during your turn, you may spin down Red Tornado 1 level. If you do, the next time you use an action die add it to your Prep Area instead of putting it into your Used Pile.


    if I spin him down in main, pass priority, you KO him, then I use action die in attack step,.... where does the action die go?

  9. #9
    Is Constantine's ability triggered?
    Or is it activated? activation cost : "name a character"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    Is Constantine's ability triggered?
    Or is it activated? activation cost : "name a character"
    Trigger: "if named character is fielded" (not a direct quote).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    Once during your turn, you may spin down Red Tornado 1 level. If you do, the next time you use an action die add it to your Prep Area instead of putting it into your Used Pile.


    if I spin him down in main, pass priority, you KO him, then I use action die in attack step,.... where does the action die go?
    The trigger here is the spinning down of Red Tornado.

    So it's like Scarlet Witch - the effect has triggered and stays in effect until it fully resolved.

    That is very different from Constantine, in which the second part of the effect doesn't trigger until you field the named character.

  12. #12
    they are both "may" abilities.
    I don't see a difference. They are both optional, activated abilities.

  13. #13
    The difference is this:

    Red Tornado: "You may do X. If you did X then the next time Y do Z."

    Constantine: "You may do X. If Y(X) then do Z."

    In the first the trigger is doing 'X', so if you choose to do X then Z always happens the next time Y does.

    In the second, though, the trigger is doing 'Y(X)', so if you choose to do X then Z only happens if Y(X) happens.

    Or, to put it another way, with Constantine there is a conditional constraint put on what happens after you choose to do the optional part of the ability, which is not present with Red Tornado.

    Or, to put it another way still, Constantine uses "if" whereas Red Tornado uses "the next time".

  14. #14
    Constantine's (intended) ability is this:
    While active, if your opponent fields _________, ignore it's text and it can't attack.

    which is a triggered, and he must be active/ have text for it to trigger.

    the first part of his ability, is just filling in the blank.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    Constantine's (intended) ability is this:
    While active, if your opponent fields _________, ignore it's text and it can't attack.

    which is a triggered, and he must be active/ have text for it to trigger.

    the first part of his ability, is just filling in the blank.
    Then we are in agreement.

  16. #16
    Yes, I quickly ran out of arguments playing "devil's advocate", so this must be right...

  17. #17
    Ah! LOL! That explains why I was finding it hard to follow your reasoning then!

  18. #18
    Let's not go speaking for WK on what their intentions are for any particular card.

  19. #19
    The dmrulesteam needs to get their buns busy over on their forums. They haven't updated since April 15.

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