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Thread: If you can't beat the out ramp them

  1. #1

    If you can't beat them out ramp them

    As I have been consistently practicing and play testing. Lately, I have been obsessed with the second turn and ways to improve your play, going second. National Champion David Walsh specifically talks about how he made his team to win going second. I have seen others work ways around going second and I notice that there seems to be a trend with agro teams being able to pull the win going second. Second place at nationals went to Kelly. He played a very good control deck. But something he said in the final match really hit my head. He said, “I think, this is the first time in the tournament that I have not gone first.” So we have seen that control or midrange decks seem to have a problem with the second place slot. Now, I have been an agro player in tournaments for a while, but at heart I love control. So I have been bashing my brain in making control/Midrange work going second. I have my solution, out ramp them. I do this using three cards:

    Now I know many of you know of the famous PXG, and if you have been watching the meta you know about blue eyes, these are most people’s staple ramp options. Blue eyes fixes bad roles, pxg gives the ramp. The issue is they also give them to your opponent. This has always been the issue what is good for you is good for them.

    Now comes the switch.

    Here is where you can change the game. This increases your ramp. His allows to you get even more dice and once you have one out well the others are simply energy used to bring out bigger stronger control cards like Hulk GG/JG or Jinzo, Apocalypse Earth-295. The cards that were just too expensive become easier to play. But no team is perfect. So here are the cons:

    1. You are giving up three slots just to ramp. This can limit the team choices, and other global possibilities.
    2. Sometimes the dice betray you.
    3. You are going to take a hit. If they can get off the third turn 20 points well you will lose. If they get FWT in quick you can get taken down to 8 life. So you have to be ready to take that hit and move on.

    1. You can get those big guys out in bulk.
    2. When you get rolling board control is strong.
    3. Your opponent cannot get the same ramp as you!

    I am not an expert at this game. But I love looking for new ways to get around old problems. If you have not tried this I suggest just playing it out with a friend. The least you will get is a lot of fun watching your opponent watch you role even more dice than them.
    Last edited by Vapedaveb; 05-14-2015 at 11:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Can you walk us through the first couple of turns so I can see how this is supposed to work?

  3. #3
    Sure each team will be different. So, if you look here

    you see the team I use this in.

    Turn 1 buy two kobolds, pxg twice alternate pxg twice and buy constantine.

    Turn 2 Buy constantine and one ore kobold save rest for pxg.

    Turn 3 you should be playing at least one kobold and hopefully constantine. Expect to get hit this turn. Most likely aggro decks have gotten enough to hit you hard but not kill you. That is ok from hear you really ramp. But you should also have more energy as you try and only role one Kobold to field the rest for ramping. I have often bought hulk turn 3 with saving 2 masks for ramp.

    Turn 4 you see that you will pull on average 5 dice from your bag and if you have pxg'd twice you should have 9 dice, on my team this means buy your next big buy depending on what I am facing that can be jinzo or nova. but you just keep rolling your Kobolds for energy sides, this churns the bag. Now you will get lots of energy and big guys out. With the ice man global I never out of energy, I can often magic missile/ hulk the board using Jinzo weakens my opponents ramp or life, and Nova sweeps in for the killing blow. I know this sounds slow since it doesn't really take effect before turn three, but with the iceman global I can keep my pawns in the field, I can always turn them to energy later. So you have weenie defense until your big guys hit the field. This really makes it mid range because if you live past turn three you should easily take control of the field. The big deal is be ready to take damage. It is ok to get to 10/8/6 life once your control elements get on the field you can shut down what is coming at you. It doesn't matter if you have 20 or 1 life left at the end of the game if your opponent has 0.

  4. #4
    The only problem, you might run into is your as your opponent can kill your single and sadly ruin your swarming fun.

  5. #5
    When I ran a team with Kobold ramp I found it necessary to also run a way to protect them from ping (I wasn't running Magic Missile or Slifer). Otherwise a simple ping makes the Kobolds clog your bag. These are the best options I found.

    or or and

    Even with those it's still vulnerable to Hulk - Green Goliath. I found its best just not to buy Kobolds against him.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the hints. Like I said not an expert. And you have a good point. I try not to buy more than 2 or 3 of them, but yeah they are weak against GG, That is why I work to get Jade Giant out first and Constantine. Plus I am slowing their ramp if they have to spend time pinging my Kobold and then he is just extra energy for me. It becomes useful when they spend to much time thinking about my kobold while I look to bring out other control pieces. PXG and Blue eyes are still there. I can always switch to using them for wiennie wall and blue eyes fodder. Jinzo is in the team to make them pay for keeping my ramp down. In the end I hope to make my opponent so worried about my ramping they miss all the other parts of the team they would spend more time working on killing.

  7. #7
    Reposted from my team list in winning teams.

    Hey everyone,
    I did not want to repost the list but wanted to update the post. This list won again today 3-0 in one of our stores first ever Unlimited tournament. It was a great time and there were 7 people involved and OP prizes for everyone. I left with the Superman OP.

    So I wanted to give a round summary.

    The first game was against a Fellow TRP reader, we actually met on this site and I am wicked excited to play more games with him. He brought a Hulk/Tsarina combo. I was lucky and rolled first. It was a good game but I stalled him with Constantine which slowed down the Tsarina pain until I got the Hulk and Jinzo out. In this game the Kobold/PXG really shinned. It was a good match and my opponent was/is very cool and loves the game so his enthusiasm was awesome. But after attacking with two tsarinas I was able to use the hulk to knock off the rest of his blockers and came in with a full 20 point hit.

    The second round went against a patch team. I again used the kobolds to speed up my ramp with Constantine to stall out his patch. Once I had Jade Giant out I was able to control his defenders and kept patch out of the game. He was gaining on me and would have won if he had waited one or two more rounds to get a full assault on me. However he attacked to soon and I rolled two Novas the next turn, end game.

    The Final Game was epic. One of the other readers of this site, (but I met him at the store first) brought a great control/machine gun deck. However he dreaded and wanted to see how this would do against Jinzo. However I was able to role Jinzo turn three, this caused him to take some damage. He used Millennium puzzle really well. I want to really say he used the puzzle amazingly well to keep Jinzo off the field for pretty much the rest of the game. He also had Constantine, he did work to keep my Kobolds off the field to slow the ramp. However as I have said in the post about Kobald/PXG ramping this also works in my favor as they have to spend energy to knock off my kobolds, and in end gives me energy. I was able to get Hulk out and as he had the Red Dragon I also bought a magic missle and pinged him down. Finally dropping his Constantine and came in with exact damage, to end the game. But his team was really cool and I think once he gets to playing it more he will give me some pain on the rematch.

    On the whole I am really liking this team, as it matches my play style of control and beat down.
    To those MTG players, this is like an old school blue black deck.

    MVP was Constantine, he saw 100% of play, as did Kobolds, and Jade Giant. I used Jinzo 66%, and Nova in 33% of the games. Everything else was there for globals.

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