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Thread: (JuL) Deadman Possessive Talents

  1. #1

    (JuL) Deadman Possessive Talents

    I'm sure I've seen this discussed somewhere, but can't recall where, or what the concensus was.

    Deadman Possessive Talents:


    Character 'card', or character 'die'?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    That was my first impression.

    But then compare the wording to Constantine SR:


  4. #4
    Constantine was clarified on the rules forum, where the talked about the difference between naming and choosing. When you name a character it is the same as choosing all characters with that name when you choose a character, you choose a single die, as if you were targeting it.

  5. #5
    Do you have a link to said ruling, @Shadowmeld ?

    I tried searching but found nothing.

  6. #6
    See, I still really think that "choose a character" means choose the card. For instance, if you choose Joker (for some reason) when Deadman is fielded, then Joker (and by extension all of his dice) cannot attack or block. The second part of the card says "until Deadman is no longer active", which implies to me the long-term nature of the effect on the current game you are using Deadman in. Otherwise, it would just "trap" one die, and the controller of the die could KO it herself. Then, unless Deadman's controller KO'd or used all copies, Deadman's effect becomes worthless.

    That's my logic anyway. Hopefully my 9 AM brain explained it well enough to actually make sense outside of my head.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Constantine was clarified on the rules forum, where the talked about the difference between naming and choosing. When you name a character it is the same as choosing all characters with that name when you choose a character, you choose a single die, as if you were targeting it.
    Wow this is getting confusing. Shadowmeld, can you link the clarification you mention? I cannot seem to locate which one you refer to.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by OddballNarwhal View Post
    See, I still really think that "choose a character" means choose the card. For instance, if you choose Joker (for some reason) when Deadman is fielded, then Joker (and by extension all of his dice) cannot attack or block. The second part of the card says "until Deadman is no longer active", which implies to me the long-term nature of the effect on the current game you are using Deadman in. Otherwise, it would just "trap" one die, and the controller of the die could KO it herself. Then, unless Deadman's controller KO'd or used all copies, Deadman's effect becomes worthless.

    That's my logic anyway. Hopefully my 9 AM brain explained it well enough to actually make sense outside of my head.
    That makes sense to me. Next question is that if I field multiple Deadman dice (either in the same turn or multiple turns) can I prevent multiple characters (cards from attacking)? It mentions nothing about cancelling prior choices -- like Gem Keeper. If so, this Deadman would be crazy powerful.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by geneaber View Post
    That makes sense to me. Next question is that if I field multiple Deadman dice (either in the same turn or multiple turns) can I prevent multiple characters (cards from attacking)? It mentions nothing about cancelling prior choices -- like Gem Keeper. If so, this Deadman would be crazy powerful.
    I read it to mean that it works like this:

    Field Deadman and choose a character card, let's say Storm - 'Ro. I field a second Deadman, but the first one gets knocked out. Storm is still the chosen card because Deadman remained active. Now, my opponent KOs my only remaining Deadman, and he's no longer active. 'Ro can start doing stuff again, but if I roll a character face on my next turn and re-field Deadman, I can choose either a new character, or choose Storm again.

    That's how I'm looking at it.

  10. #10
    Ok, for some reason now I can't find the clarification on naming versus targeting. I thought it was a Constantine ruling, but just checked the entire WKRF, no luck.

    Let me pull up the previous Dead man thread though: hrm now I can't find that. My search-fu must be on the fritz.

    Anyway, the Dead man thing simply boils down to this: Search Fu Activate

    As you can see there are already two examples with the same wording as Deadman. Both pretty clearly state that they are targeting a die.

    As for those dice being locked down as long as you have Deadman active, there is very little precedent for that. I personally want it to mean that ANY Deadman is active. However, when fielded effects are self referential, meaning that "when fielded, do x until this die is no longer active." Is probably the intended effect. Field Dead man, stop one guy.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Ok, for some reason now I can't find the clarification on naming versus targeting. I thought it was a Constantine ruling, but just checked the entire WKRF, no luck.

    Let me pull up the previous Dead man thread though: hrm now I can't find that. My search-fu must be on the fritz.

    Anyway, the Dead man thing simply boils down to this: Search Fu Activate

    As you can see there are already two examples with the same wording as Deadman. Both pretty clearly state that they are targeting a die.

    As for those dice being locked down as long as you have Deadman active, there is very little precedent for that. I personally want it to mean that ANY Deadman is active. However, when fielded effects are self referential, meaning that "when fielded, do x until this die is no longer active." Is probably the intended effect. Field Dead man, stop one guy.
    Maybe I'm just a moron, but I can't find anything saying that those other two cards are only referring to a die and not the card either. "Spin that character up" on Enrage implies a die, but if other things that imply something are incorrect, then this could be as well. If Deadman works for just one die, then it becomes the 2nd most worthless card in the set.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OddballNarwhal View Post
    Maybe I'm just a moron, but I can't find anything saying that those other two cards are only referring to a die and not the card either. "Spin that character up" on Enrage implies a die, but if other things that imply something are incorrect, then this could be as well. If Deadman works for just one die, then it becomes the 2nd most worthless card in the set.
    I remember seeing something regarding "targeting" affecting a die and "naming" or "choosing" as affecting all dice of that character.

  13. #13
    Not Mornoic, but perhaps thorough. I've presented some precedence supporting my rules thoughts, is there any previous cards or rulings that support yours? I would start searching for instances where "target character" or "an opponent's character" means their whole card. I have yet to find any and there are a few too may for me to peruse at the moment. I will say, all other forms of long term control that target an entire card of dice, specifically say "choose an opponent's character card". As contrast, the ones that say "choose an opposing character" very clearly imply or state only a single die is affected.

  14. #14
    Unfortunately, I think I'm only going to be happy when Wizkids gives us definitive rulings for each card... and we all know that isn't going to happen. Dice Masters is a good game that frustrates me to no end due to the inconsistent rules from card to card and situation to situation. I do appreciate, however, the growing community and its willingness to put up with my repeated, silly questions.

    EDIT: I think my main problem wrapping my head around when a character is a character or a card is thematic. I always thought of the characters as only being the card, and the dice representing the same character. So, for instance, there aren't 3 Spider-Men standing in the field, rather a more invested/angry/powerful Spider-Man. So, in this case, Deadman would be possessing Spider-Man and keeping him from attacking or blocking. Rather, it's that Deadman is controlling one clone/alternate-universe/impostor Spider-Man.

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