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Thread: New questions from last night's Dice Masters (Venom, Iceman, Constantine)

  1. #1

    New questions from last night's Dice Masters (Venom, Iceman, Constantine)

    Hey party people, more questions!


    1.a) If I have Venom - Angelo Fortunato in play and my opponent fields a Psylocke - Kwannon the Assassin at her lowest level, paying for the ability and targeting Venom, what is the result? Venom's ability was activated "first" I'd argue, but its owner (me) is not the active player, so I could see this shaking out in a number of ways.

    1.b) How does this work wrt. Hawkeye, whose ability is dependent on his stats?


    2.a) This is a question regarding timing issues wrt. Iceman's global and the Magic Missile global, e.g. If I'm attacking with 3 sidekicks and my opponent has 2 blockers, can I pay a post-block to spin those sidekicks that were blocked down to s, pay for the Invulnerability/Enrage global, and hit my opponent for 3 damage with the unblocked sidekick?

    2.b) Does my opponent have a window to respond to my Iceman global and ping my sidekicks to deny that energy (since they'll go to KO instead of being spun to )? Ignore the fact that they can simply ping the unblocked sidekick to avoid the damage.

    2.c) What if the player using Iceman is blocking instead? Can sidekicks block, then be spun to s while still having "blocked" an attacker (i.e. the attacker's damage will not go through to the Mastermind)?

    2.d) And is there a window for my opponent (the active player, the attacker) to respond to Iceman's global and Magic Missile my sidekicks before they can turn from blockers into s?


    3) If a character which was named by Constantine - Hellblazer is fielded on a turn, how does that affect other, already-fielded dice of that same character? Do they lose their card text, too? Can they attack? And sort of unrelated, but do characters affect by Constantine still have an energy type?



    Unrelated to last night, brainstorming:


    4) Hulk - Jade Giant is triggered by taking damage. During your main step, if you field Hulk and have 3 s for Magic Missile, can you KO three targets before attack/defense? Or would all of the missiles resolve at once and only trigger Hulk once?

    5) Thor - Goddess of Thunder reads: "Every time Thor takes damage, reduce that damage by 1." Similar to the above question, how does using 3 Magic Missiles on Goddess of Thunder work? Do they all get reduced, or do they resolve as one damage chunk, reduced only to 2?


    I assume most of these timing questions are answered by the following quote from the rules book, but I want some certainty:

    Once activated, an effect is always resolved entirely before the next
    effect begins. You cannot use an effect after your opponent starts an
    effect but before it resolves. The only exception to this is when an effect
    redirects or prevents damage, but those situations are clearly spelled
    out in the card text.


    Thanks as always!

  2. #2
    1a) Kwannon fields then KOs. Fielding effects resolve then KO effects.
    1b) Hawkeye does less damage when fielded.
    2a) Correct.
    2b) Once the bolt is paid Iceman's global resolves completely.
    2c) once blocked always blocked. Overcrush though.
    2d) see 2b.

    3) yes, yes, nope and likely, as they just lose "text" which is generally assumed to be everything in the "text box". After all dice don't lose their Faces when Constantine, and that is on the card too.

    4) up for debate, but for either player, the safer bet is to pay for one, choose to resole its effect completely, then pay for another. This us clearly defined to work. The problem comes up when you try to spend all of the energy simultaneously.

    5) extension of above, try to pay for it all simultaneously, and unless your opponent interjects, it should fire as a batch.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    1a) Kwannon fields then KOs. Fielding effects resolve then KO effects.
    1b) Hawkeye does less damage when fielded.
    2a) Correct.
    2b) Once the bolt is paid Iceman's global resolves completely.
    2c) once blocked always blocked. Overcrush though.
    2d) see 2b.

    3) yes, yes, nope and likely, as they just lose "text" which is generally assumed to be everything in the "text box". After all dice don't lose their Faces when Constantine, and that is on the card too.

    4) up for debate, but for either player, the safer bet is to pay for one, choose to resole its effect completely, then pay for another. This us clearly defined to work. The problem comes up when you try to spend all of the energy simultaneously.

    5) extension of above, try to pay for it all simultaneously, and unless your opponent interjects, it should fire as a batch.
    To clarify (numbers unrelated):

    1)
    If Kwannon KOs Venom when fielded, Kwannon does not die?

    2) If a sidekick used to block an Overcrush character is spun away using Iceman's global, does the Overcrush character damage the opponent? The character is technically "blocked" and also technically did not KO all of their blockers.

    3.a) If I have one blank Ant Man in play, Ant Man is named by Hellblazer and I field another Ant Man, neither of my Ant Man character dice can attack?

    3.b) Doesn't "character" almost always refer to individual dice, though? e.g. Deadman - Possessive Talents targeting an Ant Man when there are two Ant Man character dice in play doesn't stop both Ant Man dice from attacking/blocking. Why does Constantine work differently?

    4) For resolving an effect all at once, "unless your opponent interjects" means what? Can they only interject if they're the active player? Or is the active player the only one who can resolve a bunch of Magic Missiles at once?

  4. #4
    1) Kwannon dies before her when fielded effect triggers. Even if she kos venom she will still be KOed because once you are dead, you are dead.
    2) read the rulebook definition of overcrush, the reminder text is not rules. Overcrush -0 defense of defenders = blocked but doing full damage.
    3a) neither can attack.
    3b) you are naming a character not targeting or choosing. In effect you are targeting a name.
    4) Here in lies the controversy. For sure the active player can lump spendatures, but can the inactive?

  5. #5
    Thanks for the responses, Patrick. That clears things up.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    To clarify (numbers unrelated):

    1)
    If Kwannon KOs Venom when fielded, Kwannon does not die?
    Shadowmeld's answer to your original questions is slightly inaccurate.

    Venom's effect kicks in at the moment Kwannon is fielded, and will resolve no matter what.
    However, if you pay the 2 masks, then her ability has also triggered at the same time, so it also resolves.

    The order of resolution is chosen by the active player, but it doesn't matter which way round you resolve them, the result is still the same - both Kwannon and Venom end up in their respective Prep areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    2) If a sidekick used to block an Overcrush character is spun away using Iceman's global, does the Overcrush character damage the opponent? The character is technically "blocked" and also technically did not KO all of their blockers.
    Based on the rulings here:

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5861

    I would say that Overcrush damage is not dealt because, as you say, the attacker was blocked, but the blocker was not knocked out.

    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    3.a) If I have one blank Ant Man in play, Ant Man is named by Hellblazer and I field another Ant Man, neither of my Ant Man character dice can attack?
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    3.b) Doesn't "character" almost always refer to individual dice, though? e.g. Deadman - Possessive Talents targeting an Ant Man when there are two Ant Man character dice in play doesn't stop both Ant Man dice from attacking/blocking. Why does Constantine work differently?
    Ah... Welcome to the inconsistent world of WizKids' card text wording.

    Sometimes "character" means "character die", sometimes it means "character card", sometimes it is explicitly stated which it means, sometimes it isn't, sometimes you can work out which it means from the context of the rest of the ability text, sometimes you can't.

    Deadman's ability is, for example, open to debate. I've posed the question of which it is in the case of his ability and I have yet to see any consensus reach either in or between any the places I've asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    4) For resolving an effect all at once, "unless your opponent interjects" means what? Can they only interject if they're the active player? Or is the active player the only one who can resolve a bunch of Magic Missiles at once?
    This is also still open to debate. If you read the rules and rulings one way it is implied that either player could batch-pay for, say, 4 Magic Missiles, and they would all resolve as a single, uninterruptable, effect. But if you read them another way, it suggests that the active player can interrupt the inactive player. This needs clarification from WizKids.

  7. #7
    Magic had some pretty terrible wording and rules out the gate, too. 10 years from now Dice Masters will make sense. Hopefully.

  8. #8
    Yeah. Though, you'd've thought that WizKids might have learnt from others' mistakes.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Based on the rulings here:

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5861

    I would say that Overcrush damage is not dealt because, as you say, the attacker was blocked, but the blocker was not knocked out.
    Incorrect:

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=4425

    Removed blockers means all damage goes to opponent.

  10. #10
    Oh, yeah. Forgot about that ruling for some reason. I know I knew that too.

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