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Thread: Crazy Combo Idea, but do you think this is Valid.

  1. #1

    Crazy Combo Idea, but do you think this is Valid.

    What do you guys think about this



    Using these three cards you can protect



    The idea is to start by getting the helmet out targeting the Kobold. They you use the mask to change the target to one of the above cards. Because you can break requirements using the global. As far as I can tell.
    This could protect against millennium puzzle, or psyloche, even Hulk JG
    The question I am asking is do you think this is too many cards to protect something?
    I am thinking this could work, but what do you all think.
    Is it valid?

  2. #2
    This does seem a bit convoluted, especially considering that Storm's global could just backfire if they happen to have more masks than you (I take that is why you wanted Jinzo). If you're looking for an anti-spot removal combo, my suggestion would be to use Lord of D. (Dragon Protector) with Ring of Magnetism (Action Attraction): protects against opponent's globals and actions for all of your active characters.

    EDIT: Nevermind: I keep forgetting that reading is good tech. Just wish there was something more, er, end-game than Kobold to slap helm on.

  3. #3
    I have asked the Rules forum about this. They have yet to respond. All of those cards (except the helmet) are cards that fill niche slots in their own right, so i don't think it would be a terrible way to go, but you would have to look at how many purchases you can reasonably afford to make, then wait to field, before you or your opponent could just win instead.

  4. #4
    If its legal to do, I like it. I'm not sure about its competitiveness, but I have always like convoluted combos that people don't see coming.

  5. #5
    @Shadowmeld agreed, and I am glad you asked so it saves me time. @ELC1847 I agree it can seem convoluted but the nice thing about equipment is it stays out on the field. unlike the ring it doesn't go out for any reason. Also you only need two blank energy to buy the helmet. So it can be purchased without the loss of a PXG, Also with the low cost of both Kobold and helmet I can buy both for the cost of one ring, and no Lord of D. SO cost effectiveness can play into it. But I agree with you both that this could bog things down and turn into a mask war.

  6. #6
    The other thing to think about is that Storm's ability has been ruled to allow redirection of Cerebro's Field and x-man, ko a guy ability. This is pretty much the same effective board state as the equipping ability of the helmet. What's more, if you choose to wait and get into the mask war at the beginning of your turn, not your opponents you can use it as bait to wreck their ramp. Of course you'll have to save masks clear through to your clear and draw step almost, but might be worth it.

  7. #7
    I think Equipment doesn't target when it is being equipped.

  8. #8
    Hmm... You equip gear at the begining of the turn. If your opponent wants to counter this at the begining of your turn they have to spend masks on this instead of using PXG BEFORE you even clear and draw. So they'd be spending energy to counter this before they even see what you are rolling this turn. If they do it at the begining of their own turn, that means they would have had to save some masks even after the window for using globals. If your opponent wants to counter you equipping gear they will have to really risk their ramp simply because of the timing involved.

    All of this is pending on being able to use Storm's global to change the target of gear.

    From the D&D Rulebook: When this die is fielded, and at the beginning of each turn that this die is active
    (your turn or your opponent’s), you may attach this die to a character with the
    icon immediately below their alignment icon. You may switch the attachment from one
    character to another. If the character to which this die is attached leaves the field, this
    die remains in the field, unattached. Unattached dice with equip cannot attack or block.

    After reading that, I'd say you CAN change the target. Because to me it sounds like you take the gear, and attach that to a character. So you are choosing a character. But that's just my 2 cents.

  9. #9
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    I think it's valid, but in order to make it work, you need to look at odds. Can you count on this to work without getting confounded by your opponent, or worse getting trampled while you try to set it up? Don't get me wrong, I love it. But is it fast enough and reliable enough? It feels funny talking about reliability with dice, but pros do this in the casinos. That's why casinos make money. They go with the odds in the long run. If you can pick against the spread 53% of the time, you can win money at the sportsbook. I don't think we know what that number is in DM yet, but it exists. Is there a way to push this closer to that number? If so, it's not only viable, it might be the right answer to several things. If not, you're feeding the monster your chips...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I'd say you CAN change the target. Because to me it sounds like you take the gear, and attach that to a character. So you are choosing a character. But that's just my 2 cents.
    Hmm, yeah, I see what you are saying - just like you can redirect the attaching of the YuGiOh Rings.

    But, in this ruling:

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...&t=4152&p=9798

    They talk about gear 'checking a condition' (whether they are 'attached') and then imparting a bonus, much like a 'while active'.

    Which feels, to me, more like placing KO Cerebro, which the imparts a 'when fielded' ability, on a card.

    And, the placing of Cerebro on the card cannot be redirected.

  11. #11
    Well The question for me is not is it legal, I am waiting for the Forums to answer that question since @Shadowmeld has asked we can hope that it gets answered. The question in my mind is, is it worth it. We have found a lot of broken combos in this game such as the lord of the D, but because it required two specific cards and because it was not a win condition, we did not see this combo in the Nationals top 8. So the real question on my mind is, "Is this Valid as strategy?".

  12. #12
    Well, to me 'valid' means 'legal', but I see you mean 'worthwhile'.

    And, well, it's hard to be sure.

    One could work out the odds of pulling it off (assuming it is legal), but there are a huge number of variables involved in any such calculation.

    So let's look at how quickly and effectively we can pull off the combo:

    I've not run the numbers but instinct tells me you could buy the Kobold turn 1, Helmet turn 2, and maintain enough ramp to buy, but not field, Hulk/Jinzo turn 3. So you're looking at turn 4 or 5, before you can get this combo out and in effect, at the earliest.

    Now, given that many top meta teams are looking to have their win condition out and in effect by that point, I think it's probably marginal at best.

  13. #13
    Yes thanks, that is what I am looking at as well @Scorpion0x17 . I think turn 4 or 5 is an honest assumption.

  14. #14
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    With red dragon, you could buy kobold and helmet turn 1 plus pxg. Rolling 6,you could RD global, buy poly and pxgx4 to roll everything turn 3. Buy hulk, poly in (for sk), field kobold and redirect helmet. Uses all of your energy, but it's possible.

  15. #15
    You could buy Kobold and Helmet turn 1 and still have a mask let over for PXG. Turn 2 you could buy a 5 cost character and use Resurrection global. This would guarantee rolling Kobold, Helmet, and 5 cost, plus 2 Sidekicks turn 3.

    Field your 5 cost character spending no more than 1 to field. Field the Kobold. Field the Helmet. When the Helmet moves to attach to the Kobold use Storm's global to choose a new target... the 5 cost character. So the helmet is on them turn 3.

    What 5 cost chaeacter do you want the helmet on, and where do you go from here?

  16. #16
    @Randy that could work for say loki or joker, you could also use it on Nova so your opponent cannot remove him before you Nova Bomb. Hmmmm
    Good point.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    With red dragon, you could buy kobold and helmet turn 1 plus pxg. Rolling 6,you could RD global, buy poly and pxgx4 to roll everything turn 3. Buy hulk, poly in (for sk), field kobold and redirect helmet. Uses all of your energy, but it's possible.
    One would Question whether Swapping with Polymorph would keep attached dice to the new target. You are considered attacking, blocking, etc. If swapped, why wouldn't attached dice transfer?

  18. #18
    So, I'm scrolling through 5 cost chaeacters, and I come to this guy...

    Forget the Kobold and Storm's global. Just get him out and slap the helmet on him. He can't be touched, and will just get stronger and stronger. You can still spin him up with your own abilities. You don't like an opposing character? Attack with him and force it to block. He could be a 9/9 that can't be affected by action dice or abilities with 3 turns.

    I know this isn't really using the combo in the original post, but I figured it was worth putting here.

  19. #19
    Yes but you have to have him and he alas is one of the OP cards I do not have.

  20. #20
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    @Shadowmeld , yep, which then leaves an energy to PXG with or sk to field, or bolt to trigger with. Although, I think keeping the kobold in the field is essential. If you attach at the start of every turn, don't you need a valid target and redirect on every turn? So, isn't Minsc and Boo better anyway?

  21. #21
    Going back to the legality question:

    So, I was sure there was an answer on the WizKids Rules Forum that backed up my thought that you couldn't redirect the attaching of gear.

    But now I can't find it.

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