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Thread: Is Red Tornado - Lab Creation + Rally worth running?

  1. #1

    Is Red Tornado - Lab Creation + Rally worth running?

    The answer is nope.

    So after watching Worlds, the winning list struck me as particularly interesting. I noticed that it was a Gobby deck but much less linear than Gobby builds of the past. One thing it didn't have was PXG, but it also didn't have a way to filter through its bag super fast other than using an opponent's PXG, but it did have ramp. I don't know if this is a thing alleyviper considered or not, but I've built a list that I'm in the process of testing - specifically I'm testing it side by side with his winning list from world's to see if one feels smoother than the other. I have a lot of testing to do still, but I'll leave the list in the thread so you can give it a look and tweak it for your own testing. So far I can say that it doesn't feel any smoother because you're slowing yourself down to buy 2 dice that aren't Human Torch or Gobby specifically to make them better when buying more Gobbys is just more consistent. Though it is cool conceptually, you run into a position where if you roll bad you can fall back on other better things to do than pigeonholing yourself into one super specific thing.

    I'm liking Breaker in this list, makes Puzzle kinda mopey and with the upcoming damage prevention battery it's worth considering for later metas too. It's kinda become my pet card though, I jam it in the 8th slot whenever I can't think of another thing to put there.

    It also feels less consistent in the early-ish game going second against Wolverines. Getting smacked on turn 3 for a billion damage is pretty bad. Assuming they're running the right Doom Caliber neither feels like a great match though, honestly. Not horrible, but also not great.

    Breaker The Magical Warrior - Mana Break (2)
    Red Tornado - Lab Creation (2)
    Solomon Grundy - Buried On Sunday (2)
    Human Torch - Johnny Storm (3)
    Green Goblin - Gobby (4)
    Constantine - Hellblazer (4)
    Blues Eyes White Dragon - Monstrous Dragon (1)
    Hulk - Green Goliath (2)

    Distraction
    Rally

    For now I'm kinda disappointed with Red Tornado + Rally. Back to the think tank.

  2. #2
    Do not besmirch the good name of Red Tornado - Lab Creation!

    Actually, yeah. I tried Red Tornado and Rally together, and they didn't gel as well as you may think. I think something like Gearing Up (Basic Action-wise) or Zatanna's draw a die ability would work better with his churn ability.

  3. #3
    The main issue is actually that if you're using BEWD to ramp, using Red Tornado's ability actually discards the die you just used to ramp taking away a lot of the utility - and in this case a lot of the Gobby burns. It might work better in some other context though. BEWD and Red Tornado aren't friends.

  4. #4
    I still haven't gotten to use a BEWD. I'm hoping that, after tonight, that changes... or at least, I'll see one in person. Here's what I know: Red Tornado is, usually, awesome. He is likely my favorite card from Justice League. But, he may be too awesome. That is a problem some people have.

  5. #5
    I'll admit I haven't played much with Red Tornado, and I'm excited to actually get to mess around with some more abstract things after weeks and weeks of trying to hone in on Worlds, so this is admittedly coming from something of a less informed position. That said, the question I have with Red Tornado is: what are you doing when PXG is on the other side of the table? If you're ramping properly and not getting bad rolls, you're never going to have dice in the bag anyway. RT + Rally have some neat synergy but if you're facing PXG, how likely are you to still use Red Tornado in that game? If the answer to that question is "probably not very much" then you need to consider something else. You need to squeeze as much usefulness out of the limited spots you have to fill and if there's a likely matchup where one card is going to be dead weight then it's probably not a great fit.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    I'll admit I haven't played much with Red Tornado, and I'm excited to actually get to mess around with some more abstract things after weeks and weeks of trying to hone in on Worlds, so this is admittedly coming from something of a less informed position. That said, the question I have with Red Tornado is: what are you doing when PXG is on the other side of the table? If you're ramping properly and not getting bad rolls, you're never going to have dice in the bag anyway. RT + Rally have some neat synergy but if you're facing PXG, how likely are you to still use Red Tornado in that game? If the answer to that question is "probably not very much" then you need to consider something else. You need to squeeze as much usefulness out of the limited spots you have to fill and if there's a likely matchup where one card is going to be dead weight then it's probably not a great fit.
    I would counter with: IF I'm facing PXG. We saw at World's that, thankfully, it's starting to be a little more limited.

    Also, he is the bolt ramper. Want to make a bolt-bashing-bleed-blitz-brigade? Uncle Red Tornado has to be on that team for ramp that won't break that gimmick.

    I'd also say that he is, in set, the first card you pick in a draft, and the first die you purchase (if you can roll four energy). His stats are not awful either, so it's not like you can't sneak him in after he outlives his early-game usefulness. Early game, he is fantastic as a dice churner. Later game, not as much... but it's never awful.

  8. #8
    Those latter things are true but we're talking about RT in the context of this team. And however much we didn't see PXG at Worlds, he's still there and not going away until UXM is phased out. If there weren't new sets on the horizon that muddy the future, I would have bet on PXG being the sneaky thing that people use to give their own team an edge as the rest of the meta skirts away from it. Until he's gone he needs to be in consideration for any competitive team that's built.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    Those latter things are true but we're talking about RT in the context of this team. And however much we didn't see PXG at Worlds, he's still there and not going away until UXM is phased out. If there weren't new sets on the horizon that muddy the future, I would have bet on PXG being the sneaky thing that people use to give their own team an edge as the rest of the meta skirts away from it. Until he's gone he needs to be in consideration for any competitive team that's built.
    And, analysis like that is why you are the champ.

    I would still throw him in a competitive bolt team, but you are right... we are talking about the above team. I might go so far as saying that Red Tornado and Gobby do not work well together. Since, for Gobby, you want every sidekick who has ever sidekicked sidekicking in the sidekick zone... URT URT isn't going to be able to churn.

    I will admit that I don't have enough experience with the YuGiOh characters to know how they fit together, but I may try a different way to ramp than Uncle Red in the above team.

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