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Thread: About Global Use in the Main Phase

  1. #1

    About Global Use in the Main Phase

    Hey Guys,

    There was a LOT of confusion and discussion at a constructed Marvel tournament I attended last night. I seemed to be the only one who had watched the US Nationals VODs and some of the live Worlds coverage, or any competitive DM play in general really. I was outnumbered by a few people approaching this ruling with a Magic background/mentality, which was fine in approaching a ruleset that is unclear, though I still wasn't entirely convinced.

    The discussion was around the inactive player always getting the opportunity to use a global first in reaction to anything I do after the clear and roll step, which I didn't think was the case. I.E. If I summon a Human Torch, my opponent can use Green Goblin - Norman Osborn to sacrifice a creature and take out my (0/2/2) Torch before I had a chance to summon other creatures. Another instance came up where I wanted to use HT - Johnny Storm to ping a the 1/1 buff for each die in the Prep Area Mystique, and he in response wanted to PXG to move dice across in order to save his Mystique from dying.

    Are these plays correct? I was so sure that in watching VODs, I would see the active player buy/field everything, resolve when fielded effects,use none to infinite globals and THEN pass Main Phase global priority to the inactive player. Playing the way I played last night, wouldn't cards such as Doomcaliber Knight be rendered a LOT weaker, as my opponent can ping my target before it is rendered immune to globals? Seems a few cards would be made fairly useless using the casual play style.

    The TO, who is a stellar bloke, printed off the rules, and it appeared we were playing the more "casual" style of play, where there are many chances to use global abilities in reaction to anything the active player does. As opposed to the "tournament" style of play, where it is what I believe to be cleaner and more consistent.

    I was the only one pushing this point, and as I just wanted to play with a consistent ruleset, after a time I caved and decided to go with the majority.

    What do you guys think?

    Cheers,

    owLy.
    Last edited by owLy; 06-12-2015 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Formatting

  2. #2
    Hi owLy,

    You are definitely in the right. As per the AoU rules book, page 22 "In tournament play, the active player takes as many sequential
    actions as desired (from zero to all possible actions) before pausing and indicating that the inactive player can take an action. The inactive
    player can then either perform an action or decline the opportunity. Then the active player can take more actions."

    That said, I follow the same game progression in casual play as well.

    Did you try showing anyone the rules booklet?

  3. #3
    Hey fun4willis,

    Haha thanks, I knew that I wasn't going crazy! I'd watched so many of the VODs, which meant the way people were playing last night seemed very peculiar. Most folk didn't really know about the transition zone either, which I guess is understandable given the fact that we only have access to AvX and Uncanny here in Melbourne at the moment and the scene is still growing. I wasn't overly fussed on people using PXG on their turn however, as it doesn't really impact the game state as much and it actually ends up giving my opponent less globals to play with on my turn (i.e. distraction use).

    I did bring out the rule book, but it wasn't too clear in the main section. I didn't notice the tournament section at the back! It was only when the TO printed off the rulings that we saw the difference between the two.

    I'm not a massive fan of the casual style of play. Does it make globals stronger? Does it make stronger cards like Johnny Storm and Formerly Weapon Ten/Doomcal combo weaker?
    Last edited by owLy; 06-12-2015 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Misunderstanding

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by owLy View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, why do you prefer the casual play style? Does it make globals stronger? Does it make cards like Johnny Storm and Formerly Weapon Ten/Doomcal combo weaker?
    To clarify...I follow the same game progression from tournament when I play casually. Meaning I only play as describe in the tournament rules above even when playing casual.

    I don't know anyone who does play casual in the sense you described above other then maybe during the initial introduction to the game.

  5. #5
    Playing with "casual" rules really bothers me. Play the game the way it's meant to be played. Casual rules are why Monopoly is a "bad" game.

  6. #6
    With my extremely limited MTG knowledge, it would seem comparable to playing without summoning sickness just because you wanted to be able to attack now. I think this would really change the way the game was played. Like @digitallimit said, this is the way Dice Masters was designed to be played.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fun4willis View Post
    To clarify...I follow the same game progression from tournament when I play casually. Meaning I only play as describe in the tournament rules above even when playing casual.

    I don't know anyone who does play casual in the sense you described above other then maybe during the initial introduction to the game.
    Ah woops, I misunderstood and thought you meant the opposite! That's exactly what I did yesterday, I still played with tournament rules just to maintain good procedure. I think this is especially important if Nationals in Australia will no doubt be using tournament rulings.

    I'll have a chat to the store owner and see what he thinks, because I'd rather play with the official rules in a tournament setting.

    @digitallimit - I agree completely, spot on. If playersfind an iteration that they enjoy more and want to experiment with house rules; go for it. I think in a tournament setting though that it is important to follow the rules to a T! Else, what's the point of having judges at events.

  8. #8
    The only thing I'll do for a more casual game is the alternate 6 character 15 life variant from the rulebook.

  9. #9
    I did the same thing when first starting with a friend, Dave. It was much easier to digest, enabling us to get the hang of it.

    The other guys were mainly coming at it from a Magic perspective, referring some kind of "stack" mechanic, wherein every action taking by the active player warranted an opportunity for the inactive player to respond with instants or what not. I haven't got a great deal of Magic knowledge, and as such I wasn't able to entirely relate. It was definitely useful in providing a point of comparison when trying to figure out rules for ourselves, but as mentioned above, the inherent game design of Dice Masters feels much more natural to me using the tournament play approach.
    Last edited by owLy; 06-10-2015 at 06:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Kind of a double edged sword there. IMHO - If it's a tournament with a prize, it should adhere to tournament rules, however TO's are free to run them as they wish as long as the rules are known before hand.

    That PXG use as a defensive global looks wrong though - it's not a reactionary global.

  11. #11
    and, correct me if i am wrong, the active player does as many actions as they want, they then pass to the inactive who gets 1 action? then the active gets as many, pass to inactive who does 1, etc.

    is that correct? or is it active as many, inactive as many, active as many, inactive as many, so on

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ONEone78 View Post
    and, correct me if i am wrong, the active player does as many actions as they want, they then pass to the inactive who gets 1 action? then the active gets as many, pass to inactive who does 1, etc.

    is that correct? or is it active as many, inactive as many, active as many, inactive as many, so on
    The inactive player can actually perform as many legal actions as they wish as well. The difference is the active player may interrupt and take "priority" back. Once this occurs the inactive player has another opportunity to perform actions. This back and forth goes on until either (provided inactive player has passed on last their last opportunity to perform actions):

    1) Active player chooses to attack , moving to the attack zone.
    2) Active player passes turn, skipping the attack step entirely.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fun4willis View Post
    The inactive player can actually perform as many legal actions as they wish as well. The difference is the active player may interrupt and take "priority" back. Once this occurs the inactive player has another opportunity to perform actions. This back and forth goes on until either (provided inactive player has passed on last their last opportunity to perform actions):

    1) Active player chooses to attack , moving to the attack zone.
    2) Active player passes turn, skipping the attack step entirely.

    The inactive play "can" make as many actions as they want, but realistically what one described is accurate, infinite, one,infinite,one. The reason for this is, the active player can't interrupt one. What happens is the active player must give the inactive player one instance of priority at a time, no more, no less. As such the inactive player should assume that if they try to do multiple things in a row that the active player will interrupt them. They should say, "I took my action, would you like to interrupt me?" If the active player chooses no, then the inactive player can perform another action uninterrupted.repeat until conclusion.

    If the inactive player tries to perform multiple actions in a row, all he is realistically doing is saying "here is my plan for this turn,how do you want to mess it up?" Take it slow as the inactive player and don't give away unessicary information.

  14. #14
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    Even at world's this was an issue. Nothing large for me (and after the game with Mat, none of mine mattered!), but I played against pilots who never passed priority before attacking. I chose not to point it out, as in these instances, it didn't make a difference. And I will forget occasionally too (let's face it, when you have lethal, it's kind of exciting!). But as a community, we can do a better job of cleaning this up locally so that in the spotlight, it's not an issue.

  15. #15
    Since this has been a point of contention maybe someone could produce a video detailing how this interaction works. I know I essentially learned the game from watching videos online.

  16. #16
    A video would be AMAZING! It will be so much easier to show people a video next tournament, rather than walls of text.

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