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Thread: Team 6M (Mostly Mask Magic Machinegun Mashup Menagerie)

  1. #1

    Team 6M (Mostly Mask Magic Machinegun Mashup Menagerie)

    Ok, I'm trying to think of fancy teams to use my new BEWD with, and I think I have one:

    http://dm.retrobox.eu/?view&cards=2x...36bff;3x116ygo





    The plan of attack is to field guys, zap them with ol' Blue Eyes global to buy Beholder and Dr. Strange. Once I can get both in the field, I can start attacking with Beholder to do 8 damage to my opponent each time (2 for each Basic Action used). If I can sneak in a few Prismatic Sprays, all the better. And, well, Prof X is just there to be a jerk, and shut down my opponent's PXG.

    I think this is a workable team... but I have been (oh so) wrong before. Anybody have any initial thoughts? I appreciate any advice on this team.

  2. #2
    Would it be worth running Power Bolt with Dr Strange, maybe instead of Monster Reborn?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by slimo View Post
    Would it be worth running Power Bolt with Dr Strange, maybe instead of Monster Reborn?
    I suppose it would... good call. That would be 10, so really I would only need to attack with the Strange Beholder (Beholden Stranger?) combo twice to win. That's pretty sickening.

  4. #4
    Consider Distraction (global) to take it back in the field before damage resolves. Otherwise your opponent might take the damage and send your beholder to used to prevent you from doing that again next round.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jevansfp View Post
    Consider Distraction (global) to take it back in the field before damage resolves. Otherwise your opponent might take the damage and send your beholder to used to prevent you from doing that again next round.
    That's good. I could use Distraction and Power Bolt as my two BACs instead of Poly and Monsters Reborn.

    People on this message board are fantastic. Thank you!

  6. #6
    I might also think of Jinzo over professor X, as it does better at shutting down PXG. I would also think of putting in an Elf Wizard for more action shenanigans.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vapedaveb View Post
    I might also think of Jinzo over professor X, as it does better at shutting down PXG. I would also think of putting in an Elf Wizard for more action shenanigans.
    I can't use Jinzo or Wizard and keep the team name intact. Also, I can't use characters with the letter "z" in their names. It's... it's just not done.

    Seriously, I did consider it, but I really do want to keep the Mask thing going. Except for BEWD of course... but what can you do?

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OddballNarwhal View Post
    I can't use Jinzo or Wizard and keep the team name intact. Also, I can't use characters with the letter "z" in their names. It's... it's just not done.
    Zatanna?

  10. #10
    It would be good to also consider if this even works. We don't know if using an ability from an action without actually having an action face move out of your reserve pool will activate Dr. Strange. I would bet dollars to donuts that WK would rule that Strange and Beholder don't play well together in this instance. Have there been any rulings about Beholder's action activation and if it interacts with other action-based cards?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    It would be good to also consider if this even works. We don't know if using an ability from an action without actually having an action face move out of your reserve pool will activate Dr. Strange. I would bet dollars to donuts that WK would rule that Strange and Beholder don't play well together in this instance. Have there been any rulings about Beholder's action activation and if it interacts with other action-based cards?
    I see what you're saying, but until it's ruled that way or errata'd, I think the text of the cards must be interpreted to work the way this is suggested. Strange says "use an action" not "use an action die." Seems overpowered, but it does require 6- and 7-cost characters. I like it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    It would be good to also consider if this even works. We don't know if using an ability from an action without actually having an action face move out of your reserve pool will activate Dr. Strange. I would bet dollars to donuts that WK would rule that Strange and Beholder don't play well together in this instance. Have there been any rulings about Beholder's action activation and if it interacts with other action-based cards?
    I feel good that it will. On Beholder, it does say "...as if you had rolled those dice." That seems to suggest it'll work for any ability triggered by actions.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Zatanna?
    I had hoped that no one would notice that. Leave it to you...

  14. #14
    Not sure who I was playing against on Vassal, but they were using one of the Blue Dragons from D&D:BFF instead. RJP or one of the other observers in that room might be able to tell ya who that was and what their build was, but as far as weaknesses for this deck go, be wary of Green Goliath Hulk: seems like if your opponent sticks two, they could easily board wipe you on your own turn.

  15. #15
    Ok, I've taken some suggestions and changed it up a bit:
    http://dm.retrobox.eu/?view&cards=2x...up%20Menagerie





    I realize that the power curve is all wacky now, but I think that it'll be ok. Loki can help keep any problem people (cough cough Hulk cough) from causing people problems. As discussed earlier, the Power Bolt adds 2 damage to the 8 caused by the Strange Beholder combo. Distraction will let me pull the Beholder (or any threats) back since I should be flush with . And, well, tiny blockers and attackers Beast and Zatanna should help with the ramp, while BEWD helps from the opposite direction.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    I see what you're saying, but until it's ruled that way or errata'd, I think the text of the cards must be interpreted to work the way this is suggested. Strange says "use an action" not "use an action die." Seems overpowered, but it does require 6- and 7-cost characters. I like it.
    The question lies in those exact words, "use an action." There is potentially a crucial difference between using an action and using an action die's ability because, typically, using an action requires the act of moving a die out of the reserve pool. There's really no precedent for copying or using a copy of an action die (or character ability) and whether the copies are "uses" or if they just happen.

    The inclusion of the "as if you had rolled those dice" line in the text could lend some credence to the combo working but that line has always felt like a catch-all to me by WK to make sure that the dice aren't actually rolled and/or taken off the cards.

    This also raises the question of how Beholder works with other cards. If this works, then you would need to take 8 damage from Jinzo. You would need to pay two life from Professor X or two energy from Luthor. Rare Angel can't be blocked. Common Doomcaliber procs.

    We do also have a card that specifies when you use an action die's ability in Apprentice Blue Dragon. That's a card I would see interacting with Beholder unquestionably, barring an errata.

    I think if WK ruled on this they would want to say that Strange's text should read "use an action die" and that Beholder's ability does not count as using an action die. However, I had a long conversation with the judges at Worlds about WK previously making rulings that they didn't want to make or went against how they intended a card to work, and that on top of that they have even made rulings that went counter to their own internal logic when they didn't need to. So, yeah...there's really no way to properly gauge what they would actually decide here.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post

    This also raises the question of how Beholder works with other cards. If this works, then you would need to take 8 damage from Jinzo. You would need to pay two life from Professor X or two energy from Luthor. Rare Angel can't be blocked. Common Doomcaliber procs.
    Phenomenal points, all of them. But we don't yet have the precedence for using an action and using an action die ability being separate things, do we? I think there is precedent for distinction when the verb changes (pay life, lose life, take damage) but the verb is the same (use). And there is precedent for characters having abilities and actions being actions (DCK global), but what about actions with abilities (fireball)? Actually, I think fireball brings up another point. Could I pump fireball if I use it with this Beholder ability?

    Don't get me wrong, I think WK needs to rule, and it matters what they decide.

    For now, I think this is clever, and I don't feel I have a good argument against it if it shows up at my FLGS.
    Last edited by Jthomash2; 06-11-2015 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Spellllingggg agaiinn

  18. #18
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    Rare Baron Zemo.

    Each time you use an action die, you may pay 1 to put it into your Prep Area instead of your Used Pile.
    @alleyviper , I think there's obvious implication here this only works when you move the action die from reserve pool to play it, but this text makes me second guess doubting your position. Maybe the text is there to clarify there is no Beholder interaction. But maybe it sets the precedent that action ability and action die are separate. Your thoughts?
    @OddballNarwhal , I didn't mean to hijack your thread. We just got on a topic that I thought merited the discussion. Regarding your revision, your spray should shut down ramp better than Professor X. I think that slot might be better suited to another form of ramp or a different global (Human Torch? Then if they bring Missile you can pump both Missile and Power Bolt).
    Last edited by Jthomash2; 06-12-2015 at 11:56 AM. Reason: I. Can't. Spell.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    Rare Baron Zemo.

    Each time you use an action die, you may pay 1 to put it into your Prep Area instead of your Used Pile.
    @alleyviper , I think there's obvious implication here this only works when you move the action die from reserve pool to play it, but this text makes me second guess doubting your position. Maybe the text is there to clarify there is no Beholder interaction. But maybe it sets the precedent that action ability and action die are separate. Your thoughts?
    @OddballNarwhal , I didn't mean to hijack your thread. We just got on a topic that I thought merited the discussion. Regarding your revision, your spray should shut down ramp better than Professor X. I think that slot might be better suited to another form of ramp or a different global (Human Torch? Then if they bring Missile you can pump both Missile and Power Bolt).

    It's alright to hijack. I really (obviously) think that the Beholder/Strange works since it says "Use a Basic Action... As if you had rolled those dice". I feel like that covers that pretty well. If my opponent had Jinzo Trap Destroyer in their field, then I would have to pay 2 life for each of the four basic actions I chose to use. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

    I really wanted to use that Professor X to troll everyone else who loves their PXG... but maybe I should be less trolly and more rampy and pragmatic. That might kick this team into overdrive.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    Rare Baron Zemo.

    Each time you use an action die, you may pay 1 to put it into your Prep Area instead of your Used Pile.
    @alleyviper , I think there's obvious implication here this only works when you move the action die from reserve pool to play it, but this text makes me second guess doubting your position. Maybe the text is there to clarify there is no Beholder interaction. But maybe it sets the precedent that action ability and action die are separate. Your thoughts?
    I mean, I don't think it clarifies anything any more than what we've already hashed out. It's a case where Zemo clearly wouldn't work with Beholder, and we have some other clear examples of what do and don't, but ultimately it's Dr. Strange's text that needs to be clarified for the case at hand (or, y'know, ruling on Beholder to clear up all possible confusion).


    This actually raises another question, though: when you use an action die, it doesn't go to your used pile. It goes to out of play (and then to used at the end of the turn). So, if I use Hulk Out, then pay 1 with Baron Zemo, does Hulk Out straight to prep, or out of play and then prep at the end of the turn?

    We're down a massive rabbit hole here.

  21. #21
    I think "As if you had rolled those dice" is pretty unambiguous, is it not?

  22. #22
    Am I a bad person if I use a PXG instead of the troll-tastic Professor X? I mean, I HATE PXG... but see, there is this event in town at this place I've not played at before... and I want to win. Not "Bring an Evil Burn Team Made Up of Gobby and BEWD and Tornado" want to win... but still.

  23. #23
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    If you bring pxg, your spray does not disrupt ramp the same way (or at all).

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    If you bring pxg, your spray does not disrupt ramp the same way (or at all).
    Yeah. But, I could PXG and replace spray with Rare Jinzo. Still 6 out of 8 cards are , so that's ok. Team would be faster, but I'd die a little inside.

  25. #25
    So, I've done a bit of playtesting (one player) on Vassal, and I think I may want to sub out the Prismatic Spray and throw an Elf Wizard into the mix. First, I was thinking the rare so that I may be able to use my opponent's actions, but the others seem ok as well. Either way, a few more bolts really help drive Dragon-Eyes White Blue's global.

    I also think I am going to stick with Professor X - Trolltastic. Once Zatanna and Beast get into play I am consistently rolling 6 dice a turn. If the other player brings PXG, that's even better.

    This is the team I plan on taking to the event at the store I've not been to yet. I'll post a follow-up in case anyone wants to see if this goes down in flames, or merely doesn't embarrass me.

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