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Thread: Ultron - Peacekeeper Gone Wrong

  1. #1

    Ultron - Peacekeeper Gone Wrong

    When Ultron is blocked, capture all blocking character dice (return them at end of turn).
    So, are we reading this as capturing any dice that are blocking Ultron or any dice that are blocking period?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Yeah, I'm reading it as the characters blocking Ultron.

  4. #4
    If we're reading cards like Dr. Strange for use with Beholder as the literal text on the card, I think it needs to be interpreted as all blockers. It appears that's how it was interpreted over at Dice Anon when they initially spoiled it.

    This is a frustrating case where rulings on some of their cards could be used to infer intent here, but we don't have rulings on said cards...

  5. #5
    Compare this guy to the Ultron drones. What does their similar ability say?

    Edit: "Capture any enemy character blocking Ultron Drone (return it at the end of the turn)."

    Comparing the two wordings it seems pretty clear to me that Ultron, the bigger nastier guy, is meant to use his ability as a deterrent to being blocked. If you block him, all blockers disappear. This means overcrush, no KOs and a static board state that cost his side very little in resources.

  6. #6
    I believe that this is for all blocking dice, not just the dice that block Ultron. He is "keeping the peace" by just capturing everyone.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Compare this guy to the Ultron drones. What does their similar ability say?

    Edit: "Capture any enemy character blocking Ultron Drone (return it at the end of the turn)."

    Comparing the two wordings it seems pretty clear to me that Ultron, the bigger nastier guy, is meant to use his ability as a deterrent to being blocked. If you block him, all blockers disappear. This means overcrush, no KOs and a static board state that cost his side very little in resources.
    This has changed my mind.

    I am now sure it is all blockers.

    Maybe. :P

  8. #8
    As written I'd say all blockers. Intent could just be Ultron blockers.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalFirefly View Post
    As written I'd say all blockers. Intent could just be Ultron blockers.
    I actually think the intent is also all blockers. If you look at the global (Pay to force an opposing character to block a character of your choice this turn), then it's obviously geared to work with that ability. If you attack with Ultron, then use the global to force someone to block it, you have cleared the field for the rest of turn.

    The bigger question I have is exactly how that plays out and what it accomplishes. If I understand it correctly, before attacking, Ultron uses the global to force a sidekick to block him. Then attackers are declared, and then blockers are declared. All opposing characters are then captured, but once blocked always blocked, so no one gets through... right?

  10. #10
    Cheetah would still do her 1 damage, martian manhunter would do his full 7 overcrush, deadpool Jack would not KO anyone, your Constantine you were forced to attack with would not die... The list goes on, these are just some of the most recent examples.

  11. #11
    This isn't actually all that unclear... I'm not seeing where the confusion is coming from.

    The effect has two bits: the trigger and the resulting effect.

    The Triger - When Ultron is Blocked. This means it activates in the "when blockers have been assigned" phase of the attack step so long as the attacking Ultron was assigned a blocker.

    The Effect - capture all blocking character dice. This checks each character die. Any that are blocking are then captured until the end of the turn. It never says or implies anything about having to be characters that are blocking Ultron, rather that all character that were assigned to block are effected.

  12. #12
    @Shadowmeld , current ruling states that a blocker must be KO'd for extra Damage to go threw, Does being removed from the field count as that? Since the character is not KO'd I am not sure overcrush would get threw.

  13. #13
    There is a ruling that says if a blocker is made, not a blocker ( distraction or capturing for example) then Overcrush still checks the defense of "current" blockers and overcrushes after that. Regular character interaction of once blocked always blocked remains, however the overcrush ability adds a step. It is not "if all characters are killed" as much as it is "add all of the blockers defenses together, apply damage to those defenses, if there are no defenses left after that (is, you killed them all) the apply remaining damage to face" this takes into account invincible blockers, removed blockers and most of the other edge cases.

  14. #14
    So basically it's like except you don't need to pay for the ability and Ultron doesn't take any damage from the blockers?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    This isn't actually all that unclear... I'm not seeing where the confusion is coming from.
    From the fact that there have been plenty of wordings and rulings that have either gone against what was expected or have simply worked contrary to what the basic wording on the card would indicate. It's not at all hard to read that verbatim ability and parse it to be just the characters that are blocking Ultron, nor to assume that is what WK intended.


    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalFirefly View Post
    So basically it's like except you don't need to pay for the ability and Ultron doesn't take any damage from the blockers?
    No, because anything that is blocked remains blocked. It just basically creates shenanigans with different abilities (Overcrushing characters will deal damage, Hulk doesn't smash anything, Nova doesn't go off, etc.).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    From the fact that there have been plenty of wordings and rulings that have either gone against what was expected or have simply worked contrary to what the basic wording on the card would indicate. It's not at all hard to read that verbatim ability and parse it to be just the characters that are blocking Ultron, nor to assume that is what WK intended.




    No, because anything that is blocked remains blocked. It just basically creates shenanigans with different abilities (Overcrushing characters will deal damage, Hulk doesn't smash anything, Nova doesn't go off, etc.).
    Ok thanks. I figured since the blocker was captured, he's no longer blocking.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalFirefly View Post
    Ok thanks. I figured since the blocker was captured, he's no longer blocking.
    There has not yet been a ruling from the perspective of "is a blocking character still blocking after it has been removed from combat?"

    But there has from the perspective of "is an attacking character still blocked after it's blocker has been removed from combat?"

    And, said ruling is (paraphrased, I think): "yes, once blocked always blocked (until end of turn)."

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    There has not yet been a ruling from the perspective of "is a blocking character still blocking after it has been removed from combat?"

    But there has from the perspective of "is an attacking character still blocked after it's blocker has been removed from combat?"

    And, said ruling is (paraphrased, I think): "yes, once blocked always blocked (until end of turn)."
    Do you have the link to that ruling?

  19. #19
    the cards..
    Last edited by bartok; 06-17-2015 at 04:14 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalFirefly View Post
    Do you have the link to that ruling?
    It's in the FAQ:

    Q: Is a character considered to be blocked even if the blocker is removed from combat before damage is assigned?
    A: Yes, once a blocker is declared in the Assign Blocker step, the attack is still considered blocked when assigning damage. As an example, if Nightcrawler, Circus Freak, is blocked by a single character and that character is KO’d by Nightcrawler’s ability, Nightcrawler is still considered to have been blocked for the turn.
    See: http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/
    (11th question)

  21. #21
    Thanks, I was looking on the rules forum for it.

  22. #22
    It has been mentioned on the rules forum too. But I couldn't find it either. The forums really aren't the best for finding stuff like that.

  23. #23
    arguments like this really upset me, this is why we can't have nice things, this is why friendships are ruined.

    NOWHERE does it say on the card "capture only dice blocking Ultron" so WHY are some of you reading it like that? It CLEARLY says "All blocking character dice", all...all means...all, so everyone on the table/board/mat that is blocking are captured. It's very easy, just read the card people, don't put words on the card that aren't there and you won't get confused.

    *If you think this card is overpowered remember: You assign defenders BEFORE the attacker uses Ultrons global ability, and if you kill Ultron all captured dice return to the field of play.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Devolution View Post
    *If you think this card is overpowered remember: You assign defenders BEFORE the attacker uses Ultrons global ability, and if you kill Ultron all captured dice return to the field of play.
    Erm, no you don't.

    If, as the attacker, you wait until after blockers are assigned, before you use the global, then you have wasted your time.

    It's like trying to use Phoenix's forced attack global after attackers have been declared - sure, you can do that, but you end up spending energy to have no effect what so ever.

    You can only force blocks/attacks during the Main Step.

  25. #25
    Why can you only force blocks/attacks during the Main Step? Is there a ruling that points to that?
    Seems like card text should overrule, for instance you can buy things and at times field things on your opponent's turn if the card text allows, which also triggers when fielded affects.
    I guess the concern would be that it breaks the game: am I the "2-3 would try to stretch the rules for their own advantage"...
    For instance you could assign one attacker to initiate the attack phase and then after blockers are assigned you could force all your other dice to attack and no blockers could be assigned. Do they trigger "when attacking" affects? I guess I'm agreeing with you I'm just not sure it should be implied.

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