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Thread: House of Mystery

  1. #1

    House of Mystery

    House of Mystery
    Trinity War

    Put all dice in the Field Zone that are the same as another die in the Field Zone into their owner's Used Pile.


    "The same as another die"... What exactly does that mean? Does it matter which level the character or action is on? What about dice across different sets?

    Is a Level 1 AVX Black Window die 'the same' as a Level 3 Black Widow die?

    Is a Level 1 AVX Storm die 'the same' as a Level 1 UXM Storm die?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by pishposh View Post
    House of Mystery
    Trinity War

    Put all dice in the Field Zone that are the same as another die in the Field Zone into their owner's Used Pile.


    "The same as another die"... What exactly does that mean? Does it matter which level the character or action is on? What about dice across different sets?

    Is a Level 1 AVX Black Window die 'the same' as a Level 3 Black Widow die?

    Is a Level 1 AVX Storm die 'the same' as a Level 1 UXM Storm die?
    Wizkids hasn't ruled on this and there has been much debate, but my guess is that since we are not allowed to have Angel from AvX and Angel from UXM, is that they are both considered the same character, therefor the same dice. As for different levels, that shouldn't matter, that would be talking about a die face and not the die itself.

    However, being that we are also technically not allowed to use the dice from other sets, there is an argument there for having the dice be from the same set. Sorry, I know that didn't help.

  3. #3
    and isn't there technically only one field zone? each player just has their own side of it? so if i have a uxm angel and my opponent has an avx angel? or even the same angel?

    heavy sigh, wizkids. heavy sigh.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Wizkids hasn't ruled on this and there has been much debate, but my guess is that since we are not allowed to have Angel from AvX and Angel from UXM, is that they are both considered the same character, therefor the same dice. As for different levels, that shouldn't matter, that would be talking about a die face and not the die itself.

    However, being that we are also technically not allowed to use the dice from other sets, there is an argument there for having the dice be from the same set. Sorry, I know that didn't help.
    If one player has AvX Angel and the other has UXM Angel, you could have a situation where they are both in the field. My guess would be that in this situation they would be considered the same and go to the owner's Used Pile.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pishposh View Post
    If one player has AvX Angel and the other has UXM Angel, you could have a situation where they are both in the field. My guess would be that in this situation they would be considered the same and go to the owner's Used Pile.
    No of course you could have two different sets if each player is playing a different one, especially going forward, there will be even more character overlaps with AoU, however, seeing as you cannot use them interchangeably between sets, IE, I can't use my Storm dice from UXM for my AVX Storm card, that they are in fact considered to be different by Wizkids.

  6. #6
    It's going to get even more complicated with AoU which has characters from AvX/UXM that don't just have different colour dice, but also different stats and energy types.

    For this reason I think they will say that to be the "the same as another die", it must be both the same character and from the same set.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    It's going to get even more complicated with AoU which has characters from AvX/UXM that don't just have different colour dice, but also different stats and energy types.

    For this reason I think they will say that to be the "the same as another die", it must be both the same character and from the same set.
    Agreed

  8. #8
    I'm surprised nobody has commented on the Black Window thing. What point is a window that you can't see through?

    As for this power, I'd guess it means same die, same set. That being said, I could see it being same character. In other words, I have helped NONE.

    Excellent.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RJRETRO View Post
    I'm surprised nobody has commented on the Black Window thing. What point is a window that you can't see through?

    As for this power, I'd guess it means same die, same set. That being said, I could see it being same character. In other words, I have helped NONE.

    Excellent.
    oh RJ... you make me happy.

    Definitely need more clarification here. I will say that my sidekicks and your sidekicks are the same dice. Also, dice of in set, matching named cards with different subtitles are the same dice. Lastly, a die has 6 faces, even if a character is a different level it is the same die.

    As to the debate about dice from different sets, this only really affects your dice that are similar to your opponents, and i would bet that the ruling is that the dice need to be identical. In other words, since you can't use UxM dice for AvX angel, you can't also remove your opponent's AvX set dice with your UxM set dice. This puts more of a burden on the House of Mystery player to have the RIGHT character to knock out your opponent's dice, and gives your opponent more of a way to play around this card by buying only one of each die. This is of course, just my speculation.

  10. #10
    The House of Mystery is not in need of the level of clarification everyone is discussing. The existing wording from previous sets defines this card to allow the player activating to choose one named character of each named character on the field (regardless of level) to survive the effect. Its a beautiful parallel to the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    It's going to get even more complicated with AoU.
    This is an absolutely silly comment. First off, Hulk: Jade Giant & Hulk: Green Goliath are two different characters. The same is true for every other card of Hulk that is made regardless of the dice used by the card. This fact does not need clarification for understanding. Furthermore, the WizKids crew took a lot of feedback when drafting the Age of Ultron set to start nipping these threads in the bee-hind. If you look at all the scans of the cards in the coming set spoilers, you will notice that a LOT of effort was placed into clarification of effects.

  11. #11
    To the Black Widow comment- it is the same die, even if it's on a different face, IMO.

    I also expect that a die with the same stats and symbol will be considered the same die even if it's from a different set and has a different die color. Otherwise we have to consider the sidekick dice from the Collector's Boxes different than other white sidekick dice.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    The House of Mystery is not in need of the level of clarification everyone is discussing. The existing wording from previous sets defines this card to allow the player activating to choose one named character of each named character on the field (regardless of level) to survive the effect. Its a beautiful parallel to the comics.
    What???!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    This is an absolutely silly comment. First off, Hulk: Jade Giant & Hulk: Green Goliath are two different characters. The same is true for every other card of Hulk that is made regardless of the dice used by the card. This fact does not need clarification for understanding. Furthermore, the WizKids crew took a lot of feedback when drafting the Age of Ultron set to start nipping these threads in the bee-hind. If you look at all the scans of the cards in the coming set spoilers, you will notice that a LOT of effort was placed into clarification of effects.
    Wow.

    Talk about taking something entirely out of context!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    The House of Mystery is not in need of the level of clarification everyone is discussing. The existing wording from previous sets defines this card to allow the player activating to choose one named character of each named character on the field (regardless of level) to survive the effect. Its a beautiful parallel to the comics.
    Are we sure any characters "survive"? Reading the text that says, "Put all dice in the Field Zone that are the same as another die in the Field Zone into their owner's Used Pile." doesn't leave me with the impression that one die gets to stick around. It says ALL.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Talk about taking something entirely out of context!
    This is directly in relation to the topic on hand. You seem to be under the opinion that different dice with different faces are the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbone3 View Post
    Are we sure any characters "survive"?
    Survive may had not been the best choice of wording with this location in the DC Universe.


    The main thing for everyone to remember is that the card's conditional statement is the dice on the field. One only has to look to the rulebook to see that according to tournament rules, dice with the same face are considered the same.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    Survive may had not been the best choice of wording with this location in the DC Universe.
    Strike it, then, in the interest of fandom. Still, I don't think any dice will remain in the field if there were any matching dice when House of Mystery was played.

  16. #16
    Let's not get reactive with our comments here folks. Keep it civil.

    As for any characters surviving the effect, I have to agree that none survive.

    As for collectors sidekicks versus regular sidekicks versus standard, those dice share everything but color, unlike carded characters that have different names, sets, etc. The collectors coloring is a cosmetic upgrade, not a feature of the game.

    As for dice from different sets, the are not the same, for reasons other than simply color.

    However, the uncertainty of whether set is the divider, name is the divider or subtitle is where the confusion lies.

  17. #17
    Per my reading of the rules (and an observation that is thus far unfailingly true), I believe the Custom Icon is the thing that differentiates if a die is the same as another, since all dice with the same Custom Icon share the same attributes (including FC, A & D). The Card Title still remains the determining factor in team composition, however, which is a bummer since I hoped to create a team with the same characters but different Custom Icons.

  18. #18
    Firstly, apologies for my reaction to your post, @TheDoubleBursts . I was taken aback by you comment, and perhaps expressed that a little bluntly. I hope no offence was taken as none was meant. Just as none is meant by this post either.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    This is directly in relation to the topic on hand. You seem to be under the opinion that different dice with different faces are the same.
    No I am under the opinion that AoU will complicate matters with respect to how this card could be interpreted because of the fact that it has characters that share a name with some characters in AvX and UXM but which have dice with different stats and energy types, which would suggest that they are different characters.

    This has nothing to do with whether "the WizKids crew took a lot of feedback when drafting the Age of Ultron set to start nipping these threads in the bee-hind", as you stated, or that "a LOT of effort was placed into clarification of effects".

    And, moreover, I disagree that "Hulk: Jade Giant & Hulk: Green Goliath are two different characters".

    Take, for example, the upcoming Zombie cards. These all state to KO all other characters of a given name, regardless of subtitle.

    Or Phoenix Dark Phoenix:



    These would all suggest that what differentiates characters is their Name, not Subtitle.

    In fact, you seem to contradict yourself by first saying that Green Goliath and Jade Giant are different characters, but then asserting that the tournaments rules say that dice with the same faces are the character (which, incidentally, I cannot find in any of the tournament rules).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    And, moreover, I disagree that "Hulk: Jade Giant & Hulk: Green Goliath are two different characters".
    I agree with your assessment, Scorpion0x17. There are multiple versions (i.e. multiple cards) of individual characters. Starting with AoU, there are also multiple custom icons and dice for the some characters.

  20. #20
    Let's clear something up here, house if mystery doesn't mention characters, only dice. The question isn't which characters are the same as other characters, but which dice are the same as other dice.

    Dice from different sets are different, not just because of color or icon, but because of the fact that those dice can't be legally swapped with each other.

    Collectors sidekicks could be legally swapped for each other.

  21. #21
    Shadowmeld, I have posited that Custom Icon is the differentiating factor between dice, not set. I'm not sure I'm correct, but I think it's a reasonable assumption. My comments are made under that assumption.

  22. #22
    I do not know if anyone has but I did ask for clarification on this card to wizkids. Maybe they will start answering questions again soon.

  23. #23
    Can you use dice with the same icon but from different sets interchangeably? Why not? So there is a difference? Thus they are different.

    One sided conversation, but it should be easy to follow the logic.

  24. #24
    Your logic is sound and I concede that it may well be correct. By having the exact same stats for each die that shares a Custom Icon, though, I have to wonder if there was a functional purpose for that. To me, it's seems reasonable that there is a functional purpose and that this is it (considering the dice to be the same).

    That said, the rule book does say, "Each die is engineered with a unique combination of colors and graphics." If I attended a tournament today, I would expect your definition to be in place. I still wonder if, when we get clarification, that sameness will be determined by Custom Icon.

  25. #25
    While I see your hesitance, and an understand it, I think I can shed some light. AvX and UxM share icons and stats for ease and cost of manufacturing. Similar to the reasons Alpha and Beta versions of Magic don't have set icons, the first two sets of both games were probably not thought through ten sets ahead.

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