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Thread: The Flash: Connected to the Speed Force

  1. #1

    The Flash: Connected to the Speed Force

    The DC set showcased four powerful Super Rare effects (well, minus 1: The Flash.) This made me wonder about the wording on The Flash's Super Rare card. I am wondering if there is some clarity lost in the text in the card. I wanted to compare it Wolverine's ability to see if there were any obvious signs of this.


    The Flash: Connected to the Speed Force
    4 [Fist]
    When attacking alone, if you have no other characters fielded, Flash is unblockable.

    Wolverine: Canucklehead
    6 [FIST]
    When Wolverine attacks alone, he cannot be blocked.


    These two characters share the same condition and result.
    Condition: Attacking alone
    Result: Unblockable

    There is a general acceptance to the rules that "attacking alone" would translate into: "the only die declared as an attacker." The key difference between these two cards is that The Flash has a secondary condition to this effect. Since it is a cheaper card, it would make since that is a cheaper version of this effect. The second condition at first glance appears to be that it is the only die fielded. The only problem with this is the wording could had been more easily been worded: "if this is your only fielded character".

    Anyone else have the feeling that "if you have no other characters fielded" means "if you only die that you have fielded is The Flash"?

  2. #2
    Either way, it's still a rubbish ability.

    :P

  3. #3
    I would disagree. (I would be willing to wager 3 on the field for defense and one attacking is not as bad as you would think.)

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Thanks. It very much should.

    This would confirm that The Flash (regardless of how many die are fielded) is the ONLY fielded character. Since there are no other characters fielded, (if its just Flash dice), then The Flash is unblock-able.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleBursts View Post
    Thanks. It very much should.

    This would confirm that The Flash (regardless of how many die are fielded) is the ONLY fielded character. Since there are no other characters fielded, (if its just Flash dice), then The Flash is unblock-able.
    Does your confirmation come from:
    1. the more the merrier
    or
    2. leave me alone

  7. #7
    Flash is definitely from the Leave me Alone class:

    2 conditions must be met for the effect to trigger; so he'd check to see if any other character die were present before attacking, and if the check passes, he'd then check to see if any other character dice are in the field, before triggering the unblockable ability.

    Edited out duplicate URL - should've refreshed the page before replying

  8. #8
    I believe you can have multiple Flashes fielded and still get the benefit. When the game checks to see if the conditions are met for Flash's ability to trigger, it sees only one character fielded (Flash). Though you have multiple instances of that character, Flash is the only character fielded.

    Or, in other words, what TDB said.

  9. #9
    The example provided for leave me alone has identical wording as flash. How does he NOT qualify as a leave me alone situation?

  10. #10
    My opinion? The rules team kinda messed-up. Before I get crucified for that, hear me out. I think their explanation there isn't keying off of the right word. They are going to open a can of worms if they have different definitions for the same word (in this case "character"). The term that they should have defined was "alone". It seems clear to me that they intend "alone" to refer to only once die. By defining "character" as an unique Card Name and "alone" as meaning a single die, all of the confusion melts away.

  11. #11
    The problem with referencing 'leave me alone' vs 'the more the merrier' is that there are two aspects of The Flash's ability to consider:

    1. "When attacking alone..."
    2. "...if you have no other characters fielded..."


    Aspect 1 is clearly a case of 'leave me alone' as it is exactly the same as the Wolverine example cited in the ruling.

    Aspect 2 is a little more tricky, however. Is this a case of "something that gives a bonus based on multiple things [not] in play"? If so, then "then 'character' implies uniqueness and it ignores duplicates", and we have a case of 'the more the merrier'. However, as stated in that ruling "The word active lets you know it happens no matter how many copies of that die are in the field". And 'active' is not in the ability text. So that would suggest we have a case of 'leave me alone' for this aspect too.

  12. #12
    To all in between my last post.

    THIS THREAD WAS ANSWERED CORRECTLY BY: DavidH

  13. #13
    So, which is it?

    'The more the merrier', 'Leave me alone', or both?

    (In your opinion)

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Flash is absolutely "leave me alone."
    For both aspects of his ability?

    So, not only must only one Flash die be assigned to attack, but that must also be the only Flash die you have fielded?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    For both aspects of his ability?

    So, not only must only one Flash die be assigned to attack, but that must also be the only Flash die you have fielded?
    Correct, if you have two dice in the field (exempting action dice), Flash's effect will not proc, no matter what.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    Correct, if you have two dice in the field (exempting action dice), Flash's effect will not proc, no matter what.
    I agree with this completely. "Leave me alone. If it is something that requires it to be the only thing in the field, then "character" is typically actually referring to individual dice and it will consider other dice, even if they are duplicates"

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Yeah, only one Flash die in both instances.

    Was that designer intent? Not sure. But unless and until it is reworded, the wording is clear.

  20. #20
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    I am unconvinced. In the rules post, 2 sk count as one other character and Namor is blockable. It stands to reason (or at least one might argue) that for Namor, Namor, sk he would also be blockable. So if I have Flash, Flash, Flash and attack with one, I have no other characters fielded, thus satisfying the latter restriction of fielded characters and the former of attacking with one only, is he not unblockable?

  21. #21
    Going to agree with Mr.HoMash here. The most consistent interpretation seems to be that character, unless otherwise stated, means names-of-dice. 1 Flash die attacking alone is what is unblockable no matter how many Flash die you have fielded.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    the wording is clear.
    Or not.

  23. #23
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
    360

    Location
    Akron, OH
    Blog Entries
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    Going to agree with Mr.HoMash here.
    Technically speaking, it's Dr. Homash...

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    Technically speaking, it's Dr. Homash...
    Wait, what did you do with jt?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    I am unconvinced. In the rules post, 2 sk count as one other character and Namor is blockable. It stands to reason (or at least one might argue) that for Namor, Namor, sk he would also be blockable. So if I have Flash, Flash, Flash and attack with one, I have no other characters fielded, thus satisfying the latter restriction of fielded characters and the former of attacking with one only, is he not unblockable?
    Doesn't seem that anyone will come to an agreement. To me the ruling seems clear "If it is something that requires it to be the only thing in the field, then "character" is typically actually referring to individual dice and it will consider other dice, even if they are duplicates" How can this be interpreted as anything different than what the card text says "if you have no other characters fielded"

    So it's best to just ask your TO before bringing him. As for the tournaments I hold, it'll be ruled that he can be the only die in the field.

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