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Thread: Rules forum update!

  1. #1

    Rules forum update!

    6 new post on the WK rules forum! Yeah!
    Still waiting on answers to my questions, but it is progress.

  2. #2
    Hey, a 7th went up as I was posting this. Guess today's answer day.

  3. #3
    Yeah they are actively answering posts right now. So far the only "good" post (answering a new question, not reiterating the rulebook or other rules forum posts) I've seen has been clarifying Catwoman - Nine Lives.

  4. #4
    they usually spend all day answering questions so expect to be checking back today, and possibly the rest of the week.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    I realize it's easy pickings, but how many times do they have to post the exact same ruling on the exact same card? I mean seriously, there are now 4 posts on Captain Cold - "What do we pay?" I realize they could have/should have worded it more clearly, but c'mon!

    Note: This is not (really) an attack on WizKids Rules Forums - I really do appreciate it when they answer questions. I'm mostly upset that people keep asking the exact same question over, and over, and over again.

  7. #7
    This is an important ruling:

    Some people have been confused about what constitutes multiple game effects. A second copy of Martian Manhunter, dealing damage directly to the player, would be an additional game effect.
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5936

  8. #8
    The important part of that ruling is that Overcrush is the SAME game effect as combat damage. This leads me to rule that Overcrsh is simply a redirection of combat damage, NOT an ability that does damage itself. Sorry Human Paladin, you aren't even more awesome.

  9. #9
    Oh, yeah, that's important too.

    I just always thought it worked the way they ruled it!

    But, some people have used "combat damage is simultaneous" to argue that all combat damage is treated as a single effect. This ruling show that it isn't.

  10. #10
    The targeting ruling is a worthwhile one because it's the most explicitly they've worded so far that any ability that involves selecting a specific die is considered targeting.

    I like the Overcrush/Magic Helmet ruling, too. It's pretty obvious and entirely logical but it also informs the Overcrush discussion we've had in the rules forum here along with the aforementioned Manhunter topic.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    The important part of that ruling is that Overcrush is the SAME game effect as combat damage. This leads me to rule that Overcrsh is simply a redirection of combat damage, NOT an ability that does damage itself. Sorry Human Paladin, you aren't even more awesome.
    Nooo!

    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

  12. #12
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5916

    This at least puts to rest the targeting debate.

    Now we know that Ring of Magnetism shuts down BEWD knockouts since your opponent can't target a friendly character to knock out.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5916

    This at least puts to rest the targeting debate.

    Now we know that Ring of Magnetism shuts down BEWD knockouts since your opponent can't target a friendly character to knock out.
    I don't see how you are getting that from that ruling.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Yes, you do.

    And if they delete an unanswered post.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    I realize it's easy pickings, but how many times do they have to post the exact same ruling on the exact same card? I mean seriously, there are now 4 posts on Captain Cold - "What do we pay?" I realize they could have/should have worded it more clearly, but c'mon!

    Note: This is not (really) an attack on WizKids Rules Forums - I really do appreciate it when they answer questions. I'm mostly upset that people keep asking the exact same question over, and over, and over again.
    Exactly. As much as WizKids shares some blame for not being diligent enough in answering questions, some blame needs to be assigned to people who ask variations of the same questions, clogging up the system.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    But, some people have used "combat damage is simultaneous" to argue that all combat damage is treated as a single effect. This ruling show that it isn't.
    This was the most interesting ruling I noticed so far and has direct implications for cards like the Casualties BAC, which I asked about last week.

    EDIT: I don't think "multiple game effects" has been so explicitly defined before but the same thing is implied in the FAQ :

    If a card effect is triggered multiple times by the same game effect, does the card effect happen multiple times as a result?

    No, just once. Suppose the following situation: Player A has a Force Beam Basic Action Die in their Reserve Pool on its double burst Action Face. Player B has a Hulk die in their Field Zone on its Level 3 face. Player A activates their Force Beam, which deals 1 damage to each player and 2 damage to each character. Player A and Player B will both be dealt 1 damage and all characters in both players’ Field Zones will be dealt 2 damage. As Player B will take damage and Player B’s Hulk will take damage, Hulk’s card effect of “While Hulk is active, when either you or Hulk takes damage, knock out one of your opponent’s level 1 characters” will trigger and Hulk will be able to knock out one of Player A’s level 1 characters (that were still in Field after being dealt 2 damage from the Force Beam). Hulk’s effect will only trigger once regardless of how many times the requirement for his effect is met. If any other source would then deal damage to Hulk’s controller or Hulk (like a second Force Beam were to be played), Hulk’s ability would trigger again.
    Last edited by Crestfallen; 06-23-2015 at 03:06 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5916

    This at least puts to rest the targeting debate.

    Now we know that Ring of Magnetism shuts down BEWD knockouts since your opponent can't target a friendly character to knock out.
    This was actually ruled on at Worlds, the knockout for BEWD is part of the payment of the ability and not a targeting effect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bankholdup View Post
    Exactly. As much as WizKids shares some blame for not being diligent enough in answering questions, some blame needs to be assigned to people who ask variations of the same questions, clogging up the system.
    It's not just asking questions that have already been answered but there is also no need to answer a question that already has an answer, even if the answer is just going to link to a previous instance.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5916

    This at least puts to rest the targeting debate.

    Now we know that Ring of Magnetism shuts down BEWD knockouts since your opponent can't target a friendly character to knock out.
    As Alleyviper said, the knockout is part of the cost. If I had a level 2 Doomcaliber Knight rare in the field, And you tried to use BEWD global, you would have to spend the bolt AND KO a character to force me to spin him down and cancel your ability.

    Similarly, you would have to move a sidekick from prep to used with SR Sliders ability, then my DCK would spin down and cancel your ability.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    This was actually ruled on at Worlds, the knockout for BEWD is part of the payment of the ability and not a targeting effect.




    It's not just asking questions that have already been answered but there is also no need to answer a question that already has an answer, even if the answer is just going to link to a previous instance.
    Yeah, I don't get why they feel the need to answer questions if the answer is a link to another answer. It seems like a total waste of their time.

  21. #21
    I have to admit there are a lot of unanswered questions I have still been waiting patiently on.

    Like can you equip equipment to illegal targets if you have storm's global?

    Does aquaman's reduction of purchase cost effect my opponents?

    and What exactly is removed with house of mystery?

    Some of these questions I posted a month ago, and here they are commenting on posts that have already been answered.

    I really think that maybe some people from say TRP and Dice Anon who have talked with Wizkids and has a good relationship with them should ask if they would be interested in some kind of rules forum assistance. You know where maybe they get some editors, rules lawyers to help them make these rulings, play test upcoming sets. I know a number of companies with small staff have opened it to their players to help make things smoother for the game in total. Wyrd-Games does this really well. You know that all the rules have been ironed out because they have such a good play test team that everything that could go wrong did. Heck even wizards of the coast had mass play testers for Magic. They didn't listen at first but then they learned.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Vapedaveb View Post
    Does aquaman's reduction of purchase cost effect my opponents?
    Yes.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I don't see how you are getting that from that ruling.
    While I've been notified that Wiz Kids have specifically ruled in a tournament that the knockout is part of the cost rather than the effect, it's a strong example of poor wording on Wiz Kids' part.

    They specifically state that: "An action or ability targets a character when it requires a player to select a set number of affected characters."

    Blue-Eyes' global affects a set number of characters, one of the player's choosing, by knocking it out. As such, it should be considered targeted and thus RoM would not allow you to target one of your own characters, shutting it down. The problem is that Wiz Kids now has an implicit ruling that costs cannot be considered targeted, costs are distinct and separate from the effect of an ability, and that the Blue-Eyes knock out is part of the cost (which in and of itself is unclear). I really doubt that they're going to keep that in mind in the future as they've not yet stepped up their wording consistency to what's expected of a regular game of this sort.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    While I've been notified that Wiz Kids have specifically ruled in a tournament that the knockout is part of the cost rather than the effect, it's a strong example of poor wording on Wiz Kids' part.

    They specifically state that: "An action or ability targets a character when it requires a player to select a set number of affected characters."

    Blue-Eyes' global affects a set number of characters, one of the player's choosing, by knocking it out. As such, it should be considered targeted and thus RoM would not allow you to target one of your own characters, shutting it down. The problem is that Wiz Kids now has an implicit ruling that costs cannot be considered targeted, costs are distinct and separate from the effect of an ability, and that the Blue-Eyes knock out is part of the cost (which in and of itself is unclear). I really doubt that they're going to keep that in mind in the future as they've not yet stepped up their wording consistency to what's expected of a regular game of this sort.
    Ah, I see. I've always seen the sacrifice as part of the cost of the ability, not the effect, so didn't read it that way.

  25. #25
    Are you also arguing that the Blue-Eyes global also targets a bolt to fund its payment? If I am paying anything am I targeting that thing in this game? In all instances i can think of, the text states "pay X to do Y" or "pay X. Y effect."

    Payments don't target. I either do the paynent with what resources I have, making choices about those resources is part of the payment, or you don't pay for the ability. The argument is that because I have to pick one character to KO, the ring prevents me from picking that character. I would argue, if you used an ability that said "your opponent must KO one of his characters" you would say I had to because the effect targets the player, not my character. I would argue the same here. The payment is targeting the player, and forcing the player to KO something. It doesn't matter what I target, if something of mine KOs that is all the payment cares about.

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