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Thread: SHIELD Agents Rare Question

  1. #1

    SHIELD Agents Rare Question

    From the card: "During your Roll and Reroll step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or Avengers character dice."

    1. I would assume this means only while SHIELD Agents are active, correct?
    2. Which exact dice can I use: only those active in the field? Or can I pull from my Used?
    3. Finally, do I get to roll them only once (a reroll) or twice as if I drew them? I would assume just the one roll because it states "reroll"?
    4. Do they all go into my Reserve, at which point I would need to re-pay all fielding costs for those that were in the field?

  2. #2
    Reroll is defined as rolling again any die you have already rolled this turn. There may be more specific guidelines to it, but I don't have a rulebook in front of me. Just use that rule as a guide and you will be set.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Reroll is defined as rolling again any die you have already rolled this turn.
    Except for when it's in the card text of all those Storms and other characters that ask you to reroll your opponent's dice?

    Quote Originally Posted by shuanfu View Post
    From the card: "During your Roll and Reroll step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or Avengers character dice."

    1. I would assume this means only while SHIELD Agents are active, correct?
    2. Which exact dice can I use: only those active in the field? Or can I pull from my Used?
    3. Finally, do I get to roll them only once (a reroll) or twice as if I drew them? I would assume just the one roll because it states "reroll"?
    4. Do they all go into my Reserve, at which point I would need to re-pay all fielding costs for those that were in the field?
    I think it's:

    1. Yes.
    2. It's not clear if this is a 'you may reroll any SHIELD Agents you drew, rolled, and optionally rerolled, this turn', or 'you may add any number of fielded SHIELD Agents to you Roll and Reroll this turn', but I think it is the latter and I am certain you can't pull them from Used.
    3. See above.
    4. See above.

  4. #4
    I assume it means the fielded dice too. That would stink to pull all those off in an attempt to get huge energy only to roll all characters and then you can't afford to put them back into the field. Guess that's the risk you take.

  5. #5
    I don't think it includes things that are in the field. It specifies "during your roll and reroll step" which strongly implies that this involves only dice that were involved in the roll.

  6. #6
    I can certainly see that interpretation, however:

    If it said:

    "During your Attack step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or Avengers character dice."

    Would that imply only those assigned to attack?

    Also, how often can you reroll them? And when? Before the normal reroll? After?

    And is it only SHIELD Agent dice showing character faces? Only those showing energy? Both?

    The Occum's Razor interpretation is that it is a Booster Gold bank style ability, just worded differently, because that interpretation leaves the fewest questions hanging.

  7. #7
    I had a lot of stuff typed originally, but it doesn't matter. If I'm ruling based on "which is less exploitable," it's the interpretation in my above post.

    Discussing the rules to this game has absolutely nothing to do with arguing logical fallacies such as the slippery slope argument above. The rule of thumb when we do not know is to go with "what is less exploitable?" until we get a real ruling. That's what a judge will do at an official event, that's what I do at my events. We can talk about what it should be, but it does nothing to help someone who needs a ruling for their next event, nor does it have any bearing on what WK will actually rule.

  8. #8
    In that case, Dave, how do you answer these unanswered questions:

    How often can you reroll them? And when? Before the normal reroll? After?

    And is it only SHIELD Agent dice showing character faces? Only those showing energy? Both?

    Rules discussions may or may not be about logical arguments, but what the resulting interpretations definitely do need to be is practical.

    So if one interpretation leaves questions unanswered and another doesn't, isn't the more practical option to go with the latter?

  9. #9
    if you think it's fielded characters, does that also include your opponents characters?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    if you think it's fielded characters, does that also include your opponents characters?
    If as I believe, it's a Booster Gold style bank effect, then clearly not.

  11. #11
    We know that it is both because in that state, they are considered "character dice" based on the established rules of the game.

  12. #12
    I had assumed this card was exactly the same as Scarlet Witch: Controls Probability, except that it is limited to the SHIELD Agent character die and any die from a character with the Avengers Affiliation.


  13. #13
    Me too, Meatman. I've never seen that card interpreted in any way other than that you get an additional retool during that step.

  14. #14
    I can see the argument for a different interpretation though. The precident is Magneto's global, where that has been rulled to affect die in your reserve and in your field. His global just says "reroll" like the SHEILD agent does, where as Scarlet Witch says "reroll one additional time". SW's text is indicating very specifically that her effect impacts the number of rolls you get, vs the other cards which could potentially be interpreted to effect which die you get to roll. Although, I have to think that if the card was intended to allow you to reroll die already in the field, it would have been worded differently...perhaps like the uncommon Booster Gold or rare Maria Hill...which is why I'm sticking with my original opinion.

    Last edited by Meatman; 07-12-2015 at 08:59 AM.

  15. #15
    If only WizKids were more consistent with their wording!

    The problem is it doesn't match the precedents for either effect, but is somewhat similar to both.

    So, I can see it going either way.

  16. #16
    I don't THINK magnetos global was intended to work on your opponents fielded villains, but since it was worded that way I guess they made that ruling...

    same may happen here.... until then, I'm playing it as rolling your own drawn dice....

  17. #17
    I played a couple of games with someone who already has some AoU stuff the other night, and he had this card on his team.

    So, before starting the game, I said we would need to discuss how it works, and explained, without giving any indication of my feelings, what the two options were, and...

    Well, it's possible he had read this thread, but he said his immediate reading and understanding of the card was that it works like a Booster Gold type ability, so that's how we played it.

    And I now definitely don't feel it's any more exploitable or any less likely to be the correct interpretation than the extra reroll interpretation.
    Last edited by Scorpion0x17; 07-14-2015 at 10:50 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    If only WizKids were more consistent with their wording!
    Preach!

  19. #19
    Bank abilities talk about how you may add dice to your roll.

  20. #20
    Before reading this thread I was thinking that it was saying I could take any that are active and re-roll them when rolling the ones I that were drawn from the bag.
    Now I'm not sure.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Bank abilities talk about how you may add dice to your roll.
    And this does - you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or Avengers character dice during your Roll and Reroll step.

  22. #22
    With the current wording, it can only mean it is a bank effect, because, as usual, Wizkids is forgetting the fundamental rule of only hitting dice in the field, and because this card doesn't say anything about which dice, then the most restrictive wording is ONLY those that are in the field.

    As usual though, I feel this card will get added to the Magneto/Iceman camp, and it will allow the rerolling of the applicable dice you drew as well.

  23. #23
    So what you're saying is that I can reroll my opponent's fielded Agents/Avengers? After all, it is most definitely NOT restricted to your.

    The least powerful interpretation of this guy is as a psuedo-Scarlet Witch. Anything else, is massive board clear in set.

  24. #24
    This card needs not just a WK rules forum ruling...but hopefully an official errata...

  25. #25
    This is worded the same as Scarlet Witch and Zatanna. So unless this thread is implying that those cards let you reroll things from the field as well, this card is pretty clear.


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