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Thread: Villainous Pact (2 on the Table)

  1. #1

    Villainous Pact (2 on the Table)

    So, this question came up at the latest DC Rainbow Draft. Since EVERYONE brought Villainous Pact (we were limited to in set BACs only), can a player activate the global on each to get two dice at a time? The card itself:

    The thinking for YES was that, when you activate them both simultaneously, it IS the first time and you don't have any dice in your Prep Area. The other school of thought is that, NO, you have to resolve them one at a time and by the time you finished resolving the first one, there are totes dice in your Prep Area so the effect evaporates/fizzles/goes poof.

    Whaddya all think?

  2. #2
    http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/
    The 5th question from the bottom of the FAQ answers the first part of this question. Yes...effects that only allow once per turn can be used twice if multiple versions of the same card are available.

    The second part..."if you have no dice in your prep area"...Hmmm...this is far from an official stance, but I would personally think no. I've always played Globals as things that you activate independently, completely resolve the global, then you can use another one. So, I wouldn't think that you'd have the option to activate them simultaneously...but that is just how I've been playing, not sure if it is correct.

  3. #3
    simultaneously?, i think one by one, and the second one, you canīt, because you have just one die on the Prep area, for the first time you use Global.

  4. #4
    They definitely trigger one at a time, so you can't use both since once you activate the first one, you'll have a die in your prep area. Globals may be purchased in bulk, but you still have to resolve them one at a time. In order for the second proc to resolve, the first would have to have been negated in some way, or the die would have to leave the prep area via some effect (though I don't know what effect could do that for you).

  5. #5
    Thanks everyone. This is how we played it (that it cannot be used twice). I wanted to make sure my thinking was correct.

  6. #6
    There is an argument for saying you can trigger and resolve two instances of Villainous Pact global simultaneously.

    On Page 24 of the Justice League rule book it states:

    "Global Abilities that are paid for in a batch resolve as a single effect."

  7. #7
    It's not clear based on how they word the entire global abilities section of the rulebook but I wonder if that applies to all globals or only one global, i.e. I can spend 7 bolts on my own Magic Missile's global to deal 7 damage as one effect, but can't do the same with two unique Villainous Pacts.

  8. #8
    If it would be like that then it could change some cards for adv/disadvantage .
    And i think WK will go like "You may use the multiple Global effect at once for all spend energy or seperate from 1 to X spend energy." <- That would be the most harmless Ruling for it i think.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    It's not clear based on how they word the entire global abilities section of the rulebook but I wonder if that applies to all globals or only one global, i.e. I can spend 7 bolts on my own Magic Missile's global to deal 7 damage as one effect, but can't do the same with two unique Villainous Pacts.
    Yeah. Frustratingly unclear.

    I have asked questions on the rules forum about and around this topic but have never received an answer.

    Which makes it all the more frustrating.

  10. #10
    Agreed. This is the one time I wish they would follow Magic, and just do away with "paying multiple to have it resolve at the same time", and just make it sequential. It would resolve a lot of things in this area, and all we would lose is confusing situations like this where everyone is right and wrong at the same time, and we need Wizkids to clear it up.

    I feel like Oliver Twist begging, "Please, Sir, I Want Some More"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    There is an argument for saying you can trigger and resolve two instances of Villainous Pact global simultaneously.

    On Page 24 of the Justice League rule book it states:

    "Global Abilities that are paid for in a batch resolve as a single effect."
    AoU Rulebook, Page 21, Timing Conflicts


    "If simultaneous effects are controlled by the same player, that player chooses the order of those effects."

    If you choose to resolve one VPG first, there is a dice in your Prep area when you try to resolve the second, and it fails.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
    AoU Rulebook, Page 21, Timing Conflicts


    "If simultaneous effects are controlled by the same player, that player chooses the order of those effects."

    If you choose to resolve one VPG first, there is a dice in your Prep area when you try to resolve the second, and it fails.
    But,

    "Global Abilities that are paid for in a batch resolve as a single effect."

    So there isn't two simultaneous effects, there is only "a single effect".

    However @alleyviper might be right and it only applies to a single global paid for multiple times. And the reason you can use a 'once per turn' effect twice when both players bring it, is that they are considered different globals.

    But we just don't know, because the Rules Team seem incapable of moving beyond the really simple stuff like answering the same Captain Cold question for the 15th time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    However alleyviper might be right and it only applies to a single global paid for multiple times. And the reason you can use a 'once per turn' effect twice when both players bring it, is that they are considered different globals.
    I'm inclined to believe it works this way. It's the simplest solution that is less exploitable plus it makes the most sense (to me). To me a "batch" is multiples of the same thing and with the ruling about multiple "once per turn" globals on the table, I'd lean toward each one being a different effect and not able to be batched.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    But we just don't know, because the Rules Team seem incapable of moving beyond the really simple stuff like answering the same Captain Cold question for the 15th time.
    Did they ever say what "Must Pay 1" means? Is it energy or is it life?

    EDIT: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I had to do it. It's obviously 1 dollar.
    Last edited by OddballNarwhal; 07-18-2015 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Mea culpa

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by OddballNarwhal View Post
    Did they ever say what "Must Pay 1" means? Is it energy or is it life?

    EDIT: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I had to do it. It's obviously 1 dollar.
    No, it's pushups... oh wait, that's way overpowered! Many of us would NEVER be able to attack...

  16. #16
    It doesn't matter, because as soon as there is a die in prep from one effect, the second one can't happen.

  17. #17
    But, if you are paying for them together, wouldn't they resolve as one effect? Instead of paying 5 bolts and doing damage one bolt at a time to a Hulk, couldn't you batch pay to do a lump 5 damage? As such, couldn't you pay a lump to resolve two villainous pacts as "Draw 2 dice..."

  18. #18
    Something was bugging me about this, I swore I saw a ruling, and I found it in a follow-up to a Resurrection question.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5897

    You could pay for both at once but they resolve one at a time. This is consistent. In your example Shadowmeld batch paying for globals like you suggest still resolves one at a time because it would trigger Hulk once for each instance of the global.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Something was bugging me about this, I swore I saw a ruling, and I found it in a follow-up to a Resurrection question.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5897

    You could pay for both at once but they resolve one at a time. This is consistent. In your example Shadowmeld batch paying for globals like you suggest still resolves one at a time because it would trigger Hulk once for each instance of the global.
    Wow.

    I've either somehow never seen that ruling, or I completely forgot it.

    But it seems to answer this one batch pay question at least.

  20. #20
    Well done Dave! Thank you very much. I don't remember this ruling either, so that's helpful.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    You could pay for both at once but they resolve one at a time.
    Hmm.... Someone said that earlier.

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