Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Article: Information in Dice Masters...

  1. #1

  2. #2
    I would answer all question with yes ,except including in the Tournament Rules.

    Myself is not perfect even with all the "YES"s , but when i sit there and my enemy says "i attack with all " or "i am lethal your done for" and, then i want some minutes to count if i can possible avoid it and get another round to win maybe. The Main problem is me, i am not so good with numbers in my head so i have to count, before and in a battle to ensure i dont do something wrong. If my opponent doesnt like this , then is trapped in my time thinking and i feeling sorry, but it doesnt help to keep up psychological pressure with "are you done yet" or answers for the Dice Numbers in the bag like "they are all here cant you see?" .

    But i think, if we all just try to be on the good path, even if it takes a little bit more effort others will learn from it, and if not, they will be knowing if some people doesnt like playing against them.

  3. #3
    To get additional information I have put together a form to find out - http://goo.gl/forms/pzGuAVp8XB


    Based on the tournament rules, and I am going with what I think the intent and not the Rules are written
    No - I wont ask, nor do expect my opponent to tell me

    The rule states
    1.2.8 - Dice Bags: Players may look into their own dice bag, but not their opponent’s. They must mix their dice well before drawing.

    Taking from that, it is their intent for you to know the information about your dice, and track what is in your opponents, based on the answer from the forum

    sources
    Wizkid forum - http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=4154
    Tournament rules - http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/tournament-rules/
    Last edited by Bestia; 07-29-2015 at 09:49 AM.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Knowing how MANY dice in the bag is only half the battle. The other half is know WHAT dice are in the bag.
    I believe answering how many dice in the bag is ok, because that doesn't give you all the information.
    Not knowing what dice are in the bag is where people that count dice have the advantage.
    Personally I will tell you how many dice I have, that I easy to count. I will not tell you what dice, and for probability sake, that is a lot more important.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat110 View Post
    Knowing how MANY dice in the bag is only half the battle. The other half is know WHAT dice are in the bag.
    I believe answering how many dice in the bag is ok, because that doesn't give you all the information.
    Not knowing what dice are in the bag is where people that count dice have the advantage.
    Personally I will tell you how many dice I have, that I easy to count. I will not tell you what dice, and for probability sake, that is a lot more important.
    I feel like this is where a lot of issues come from. I don't think you are obligated to tell someone EXACTLY what dice you have in your bag, but telling them how MANY are in there saves time. I would never expect someone to tell me exactly what they have, but the quantity is what matters. I see it as exactly the same thing as asking another player how many cards they have in their hand in games like MtG or Yugioh.

  7. #7
    Here's my deal: In casual play or a small Friday night tourney at a local store, I'd tell my opponent. I would never lie, but I wouldn't offer the information if I didn't have to in a bigger sanctioned tournament. If it's knowable, then they should know. If they make a computational mistake, that's a benefit to me. Why hurt myself? I wouldn't offer strategic advice in a match that helped someone beat me.

    On the other side, when you are playing with people at a really high level, sometimes you can skip the BS and just tell them. At a Magic tourney, I watched David Ochoa rules lawyer a lower-level player. When I played him, I spelled out every color I was spending on everything and he basically said, "You're fine. I know you know how to spend it." So, I guess it's situational. I have used subterfuge to win an unwinnable game in MtG, so I like that aspect.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bestia View Post
    To get additional information I have put together a form to find out - http://goo.gl/forms/pzGuAVp8XB

    O.k - Just worked out how to create an updating sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...76&single=true

  9. #9
    My personal house rule is that I will tell my opponent how many dice are in the bag, but only after counting them in the style of Count von Count (of Sesame Street, bet you didn't know his full name)...

    ONE die, ha ha ha
    TWO dice, ha ha ha
    THREE dice, ha ha ha
    I LOVE counting dice!
    Four dice, ha ha ha
    ... and so forth.

    I don't expect anyone else to do the same.

    LMoE

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LastManOnEarth View Post
    My personal house rule is that I will tell my opponent how many dice are in the bag, but only after counting them in the style of Count von Count (of Sesame Street, bet you didn't know his full name)...

    ONE die, ha ha ha
    TWO dice, ha ha ha
    THREE dice, ha ha ha
    I LOVE counting dice!
    Four dice, ha ha ha
    ... and so forth.

    I don't expect anyone else to do the same.

    LMoE
    This will be my new standard procedure. Gotta love CvC.

  11. #11
    Here's a different way to look at it:
    For the newer players who could use a hand, does providing the information up front deprive them of the chance to use their deductive reasoning skills and become better players? (not just at DiceMasters...)
    Are you in a hurry to beat them, so you can tell them what they did wrong, or are you interested in exploring each learning opportunity within each step of the game with them?
    By asking for yourself, are you depriving yourself of a chance to solve a puzzle-within-a-puzzle and feel that rush of endorphins for doing so?
    Are you finding yourself relying too greatly on the kindness of others in aiding your decision-making process?
    Are there times that you've asked and the information was irrelevant to your course of action? Did you learn from that?

    Being happy can make you a more effective problem-solver, but it's not always easy to stay happy in the middle of an intense match. A little solved puzzle along the way might affect your brain chemistry just enough to keep you on the road to victory!

  12. #12
    O.k here is an update on my number gathering

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bestia View Post
    O.k here is an update on my number gathering
    Thanks, @Bestia .

  14. #14
    I'm one of the people who wouldn't answer this question, as I think it's a tactical part of the game counting dice. I understand the argument for answering though. I would like to say though, there was a decent amount of hate on the forums for people like me. Comments to the effect of:
    I'd always avoid players who don't answer
    I'd intentionally slow play them
    etc.
    just remember, if you're reacting in an unsportsmanlike manner to something you think is unsportsmanlike, you're no better.
    The point is, right or wrong, answer or not, don't be a jerk. Jerks breed more jerks, and our game has a great community that we should endeavor to keep this way.

  15. #15
    I agree, @chalos13 .

    Sorry I did not cover that angle in my article.

    You are absolutely right, no one should be a jerk about this kind of thing, whichever side of the fence you are on.

    However, I do not agree that there is any tactical aspect to counting dice in dice masters. The information is as knowable, open, and free as how many dice are in Used, or the Field. There is no hidden information involved at all. The dice bag gives the illusion that the information is hidden, but that is all it is, an illusion.

    Tracking derived information, such as how much damage has been done to a character die, that is a different matter. That is a tactical aspect of the game.

    As is tracking and trying to deduce closed information, and working out the probabilities of the various possible states of unknowable information.

  16. #16
    like I said in the forum thread, I was counting my opponents dice in a tournament, miscounted, and went all in thinking he had four sidekicks in his bag. Instead, I was wrong and he had four sidekicks and like a hulk or something, that pummeled my face and I lost the game. My point is, if I had asked him he would have said 5, and I would have done things differently. Because I made a mistake he won. That, in my opinion, is totally valid, and fits in with the current wording of the rules.
    Counting dice is simply another way to keep up with what your opponent has going on. If counting isn't tactical, neither is asking how many dice are in the bag. The end result is the same information. If that information would affect how I play the game, it affects the tactics of the game. I feel the rules are pretty clear on this, so it's the way I play. I'll never get mad at anyone for asking me how many are in my bag, but if I'm asked in a competitive game I will politely decline. I don't ask other players for information that I feel they don't have to give me.

  17. #17
    The making a decision, based on the information as you perceive it, involves tactics, for sure.

    But would you consider knowing how many dice are in your opponents field zone 'tactical'?

    And, I have edited the article.

  18. #18
    My point was simply to be cool about it, and that there are differing views on the subject. Your view is valid, and I understand the point your making. I'm not here to argue about it.
    I do have a question: Is a team sheet actually required by the rules? Here's what the Tournament Rules say
    "For some events, players complete a Team List before the event, which will list their cards and how many dice are paired to each."
    I'm not finding the part that says which events have team sheets required. I'm not saying I'm opposed to Team Sheets, I think they're a good idea. But if team sheets aren't required, it changes the nature of the situation. Again, not here to argue, just asking what I think is a valid question.

  19. #19
    Entirely valid question.

    I believe team sheets are not a requirement.

    However, when you sit down to play, you can look across at your opponent's team and you can clearly see what characters they have brought, and how many dice they have for each.

    This makes it knowable, open, free information.

    Magic, for example, has explicit tournament rules that state that players must honestly answer any questions about any information of that nature (though it categorises information slightly differently to me).

    Doing otherwise would, in a Magic tournament, be seen as unsportsmanlike and possibly as cheating.

  20. #20
    I'm catching up on stuff, after being out of the game since the spring. My question is, what is the official rule for asking about dice in bag? In MTG, cards in deck is open info and a question you can ask. Dice in bag is a little different, but if Wizkids ruled that it's allowed, then yes, by all means ask. If it is allowed, anyone who refuses to answer or allow you to count for yourself, is failing to provide open info, and is considered cheating. So, is there an official ruling?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •