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Thread: Article: My GenCon Team: Why it's terrible and you should not pilot it expecting simi

  1. #1
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    Article: My GenCon Team: Why it's terrible and you should not pilot it expecting simi


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    Randy dropped a small teaser about this upcoming post in the forums yesterday. I knew it had something to do with the AVX op Pheonix Force team!...well done JT!

    I'm with you on Colossus...he is a very classic and under appreciated character. I wish he had bigger roles in the movies, instead of just the bit part "unnamed generic Mutant" roles that he gets..there is so much more that they could do with that character.

    I also think his uncommon and rare from AVX have some untapped potential as win conditions as well.

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    Yeah, it's a fun concept that, as constructed, loses its surprise value. Definitely other ways to make something like this work though.

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    I'd think Patch + Infiltrate would be easier, but not necessarily faster.

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    The Quick-Play events were not fully planned out by the WizKids crew. Andrea and I (Alice) made plans to attend 2 Quick-Play Events. Between our Late Night Tournaments and trying to earn the maximum amount of promos to bring back for prize support, we did not bother bringing absolutely everything. The plan was to attend mostly Rainbow Drafts.

    We decided to do two Quick-Play events. One on Thursday and one on Friday. Wednesday night rolls by and the single we traded for over the FaceBook Dice Masters Traders group did not arrive on time even though we had paid for rush. Thanks USPS! Thanks a lot. I had the components of two and a half teams with me. So, Wednesday night I constructed the alternate team. The team smashed through the tournament. Due to some unfortunate mix-ups with the planning of the events, our event was run with all kinds of confusion and an extra round! I spent a LOT of time having to calculate every move with the alternate team.

    So, after being graced to a game against Jimmy's team Wasp team (I heart the team Jimmy! I wanted to try it.) Thankfully my main team was looking at Wasp as an alternate.

    JT, you still wrecked me! I would like to say that event though I built up a counter to JT's team, he still rolled perfectly in our matches.

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    I don't think it's fair to say he "rolled perfectly". Insinuates he only won because of luck.

    I believe in the Canadian Nationals Champion.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RJRETRO View Post
    I don't think it's fair to say he "rolled perfectly". Insinuates he only won because of luck.

    I believe in the Canadian Nationals Champion.
    Best there is. Best there was. Best there ever will be. ...or is that some other Canadian champion I'm thinking of?

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    Nope. That's JT.

    And you're hearing that from the Mouth of the North, RJRETRO.

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    I'm pretty sure that the Colossus global is only able to target the Phoenix Force die, not just any character with the unnamed affiliation. We're never given a name for the affiliation mark that Colossus, Cyclops, and Phoenix Force have and Colossus and Cyclops' globals specify the Phoenix Force character. It's a brilliant gimmick if it really does work that way, but I don't think that's quite how it works.

  11. #11
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    Location
    Akron, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJRETRO View Post
    I don't think it's fair to say he "rolled perfectly". Insinuates he only won because of luck.

    I believe in the Canadian Nationals Champion.
    It might be fair to say I had my best rolls those games. I don't know, I rolled a lot of dice.

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  13. #13
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    Akron, OH
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    Love the name!

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    @Necromanticer : the consensus is that the combo works, though there is admittedly no official ruling on it

    @TheDoubleBursts , @RJRETRO , @Jthomash2 : good and bad rolls really aren't a huge factor in constructed where good teams are tuned to deal with either contingency; when combo teams win it's usually a result of the combo player being really good at mitigating against the risk that the combo won't go off and/or the opposing player failing to bring resources to interfere with combo teams; based on JT's results at Canadian Nationals (Patch is certainly a combo team) and now Gen Con, I'd chalk this up as JT just being a plain old great combo player.

  15. #15
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
    360

    Location
    Akron, OH
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the Colossus global is only able to target the Phoenix Force die, not just any character with the unnamed affiliation. We're never given a name for the affiliation mark that Colossus, Cyclops, and Phoenix Force have and Colossus and Cyclops' globals specify the Phoenix Force character. It's a brilliant gimmick if it really does work that way, but I don't think that's quite how it works.
    No one (including Jimmy and two gamemasters) challenged it on those grounds at the event. In fact, they loved it. I see what you're saying, but the wording of the global, "one of your Phoenix Force dice" with the limit of one on the Phoenix Force card makes me think otherwise. Affiliations are somewhat interesting, and this is the first manipulation of them we've had in the game (other than maybe Mystique copying them, but I'm not clear on that). I do not deny it was a gimmick, but most combat tricks are. And this one proved effective this time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    It might be fair to say I had my best rolls those games. I don't know, I rolled a lot of dice.
    You were the one to say it during our matches! (I just would not argue with those words!) There is no doubt that the non-Canadian Canadian National Champion is amazing! I enjoyed our games and I enjoyed watching your matche with Andrea. @Randy , I was telling JT mid-way through our game one that his team and strategy was beyond solid. I am excited to play him again at some point.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    No one (including Jimmy and two gamemasters) challenged it on those grounds at the event. In fact, they loved it. I see what you're saying, but the wording of the global, "one of your Phoenix Force dice" with the limit of one on the Phoenix Force card makes me think otherwise. Affiliations are somewhat interesting, and this is the first manipulation of them we've had in the game (other than maybe Mystique copying them, but I'm not clear on that). I do not deny it was a gimmick, but most combat tricks are. And this one proved effective this time around.
    The fact no one challenged it is the problem I have with the whole affair. Cards like Loki - Illusionist or Possession allow you to take control of your opponent's dice. Accordingly, it's possible to have multiple Phoenix Force dice fielded at a given moment, so the wording "dice" doesn't preclude it applying to the character Phoenix Force - Force of Nature specifically, regardless of her "max: 1" stipulation.

    The biggest point I can make is that the affiliation that they share has never been named (as far as I'm aware after looking into it) and exists only as a symbol to show they are affiliated. All other affiliations have names are laid out in rulebooks, but the symbol that the Cyclops, Colossus, and Phoenix Force OP's share is never referred to anywhere. It may make sense that it would be called the "Phoenix Force" affiliation, but the only entity in the entire game that we know is called Phoenix Force is the character, Phoenix Force - Force of Nature. Until we get a specific ruling in this matter, it's highly contentious and I wouldn't consider it legal.

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    Could "Phoenix Force" also reference Cyclops and Colossus? It's in their sub title...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    Could "Phoenix Force" also reference Cyclops and Colossus? It's in their sub title...
    That's part of the question at hand. There has never been an effect that interacts with subtitles. There have been the "undead" and "dragon" classifications that are determined by subtitle and affiliation, but those have both been established by WizKids whereas this combo has never been referred to anywhere. Until we get a name for the affiliation or a ruling on this global, we don't have any reason to suspect that the Phoenix Force named in their globals in anything but the character named Phoenix Force.

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    I always took those OP cards as having Phoenix Force affiliation even though there's no documentation that names it that. Although I can see the argument against it too. Welcome to Dice Masters.

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    The wording on both Global Abilities makes it sound much more like they are referring to an affiliation rather than a specific character (based on the wordings of other Globals).

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  24. #24
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    Location
    Akron, OH
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    @Indy Mon , thanks for the compliment. I do like combos!

    @TheDoubleBursts , it's true, I think 2 of my 3 perfect ramps to third turn were against you and the other was my 3rd turn win

    @Necromanticer , I get it. There's some level of doubt that it actually works that way. I obviously believe that there is an affiliation to exploit despite the uncertainty of others.

    I also honestly believe there is more liability in bringing everything your opponent needs to win than there is benefit. And that is the real narrative of this team. That my opponents did not take advantage of it is certainly never to be repeated in a similar setting.

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    Btw, I have to admit I'm quite envious of such an ability to break down and reason out which cards you need for a team idea in such and efficient and logical manner. In all my years of playing one card game or another, my biggest weakness is no matter how well I play, I can never really craft something well like that on my own without a lot of community assistance. (Then when it so happens I do find my perfect deck, that game dies or the format changes, maybe it's best I don't make one for this game, lol)

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