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Thread: AoU Rainbow Draft round time limits?

  1. #1

    AoU Rainbow Draft round time limits?

    I'm organizing a draft and need to establish time limits for both the deckbuilding phase and for each round. This will be a weeknight event, so it will be single game per round. What are appropriate time limits?

    This is the first event for getting a local community (San Francisco and upper peninsula) going, and I am expecting to have a number (possibly a majority) of players new to Dice Masters and would like this to be a good introduction to the game and OP as possible for the new players. I'm debating how to handle BACs; I normally prefer in-set only, and would ordinarily prefer this for new players (less new information to deal with and more level playing field), but so far AoU drafts seem to be prone to walled up stalemates, and out of set BACs seem to alleviate this. Suggestions?

    LMoE

  2. #2
    30-35 minute best of 1s are the recommended OP format for drafts. The deck building phase for DM is much shorter tha n that of other games, I would look at 15-20 minutes. Really, I have never seen that phase drag any longer than it takes our TO to burn a cigarette.

    As for BACs, my recommendation is start with all BACs available. This does a few things. 1) it doesn't start the trend that sets should be kept separate, and thus doesn't divide your DM player base across events or product releases. 2) while it can be harder to learn straight off, by gaining exposeure early players learn to broaden their experience faster, and tracking 2 new cards each game isn't that difficult. 3) making all BACs available sells more starters or collectors boxes. Not sure if you are the store owner, but I know most stores have loads of extra starters, this rule can help with that.

  3. #3
    Out local FLGS does 40 or 45 minutes and then we play 2 games against our opponent each round - if time allows.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jigsawhc View Post
    Out local FLGS does 40 or 45 minutes and then we play 2 games against our opponent each round - if time allows.
    How does scoring work?

  5. #5
    Everyone gets 1 point for each win they get.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    This does a few things.
    Also 4.) doesn't exclude anyone who may not have any particular designated BACs for an event.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    Also 4.) doesn't exclude anyone who may not have any particular designated BACs for an event.
    And I always have tons of extra BACs on hand from my personal collection, as well as sidekicks, action dice, and color indicator cards, plus a couple of pre-built decks in addition to my own.

  8. #8
    I don't consider limiting BACs to the most recent set, when drafting from that most recent set, to be at all unreasonable. This would only be a problem for people who wanted to draft but not buy the starter; if such a person showed up I'll lend out my BACs for the set. The problem, for me, is strictly AoU-specific. My experience with AoU draft is it frequently tends to wall up and run against round time limits, which is bad. I have not experienced this with JuL or D&D drafts and would not hesitate to limit to in-set for either of these sets. I don't believe that opening up BACs is a good solution to the problem, but it may be least bad solution available.

    One reason I prefer Limited formats is that they put all players on a level playing field and don't give any advantage for merely being in the game longer or owning more cards and sets (other than having more experience with the game). I extend this principle to both Team cards and BACs. If the player base continues to grow and WKs continues at anything near its current release rate, an increasingly larger percentage of players will have a decreasingly smaller percentage of the all the BACs printed. In a year's time, a new player with a starter set will have less than a tenth of the BACs as you or I. Unlimited BACs in Limited formats may fly now, but as time goes on it will just be a baked-in advantage for veteran players or those willing and able to buy an increasing number of past starter sets. Limited BACs in Limited formats is inevitable.

  9. #9
    Because BACs are available to both players I see no reason to limit which sets are available per a given format. With cross IP BACs, the player going first has the advantage as opposed to the player who brought the out-of-set BACs if the goal is acquire the majority of a given BAC. That said, should BACs be limited, I would take no issues with participating in such a designed format. Similar to participating in either a Little Cup or a Themed-Constructed event, limiting BACs could be one further way of restricting options.

  10. #10
    I think BACs from the set work best. Its cool to make exceptions for really new players if the others are ok with it. Everyone has extra BACs they can lend out from the ones they arent using. Reason being there are a few BACs that make the draft barely relevant. Sure both players can buy them, but newer players dont know that and it totally changes how the game is played.
    At my local stores if someone brings power bolt or magic missile, the regulars I play with know to buy as many as you can as soon as possible when someone brings it. Also, players that play their fav BACs every time have a strategy in place already and draft to those BACs, which is against the spirit of a draft.

  11. #11
    Many of the older BACs are staples due to their globals, so your opponent can't necessarily deny you your tech by buying up the dice first.

    It's a team-building and drafting advantage to have access to more BACs. I can draft and build to various archetypes and combos if I have the option to choose Transfer Power, Imprisoned, Anger Issues, Relentless, Distraction, Deflection (just kidding), etc. but can't if I don't have the cards.

    The beauty of fully Limited formats is that the cost of entry to a fully level playing field is low and finite (e.g. the current starter set).

    I'm not entirely against "extended" (unlimited BAC) Limited formats, particularly with a group of fellow veterans [again, I really value a level playing field], but I'm primarily focusing on bootstrapping a local community and know up front that a sizeable chunk of interested players are complete newcomers. As such, I'd prefer to limit veteran advantages such as having a larger card collection.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jasongardner View Post
    Also, players that play their fav BACs every time have a strategy in place already and draft to those BACs, which is against the spirit of a draft.
    It's really not any different than going in with any other preferred strategy.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    It's really not any different than going in with any other preferred strategy.
    Its totally different than going in with another preferred strategy. I can play the same strategy in every set using the same BACs. The ones from the set are balanced with the rest of the set, especially when drafts dont have the strongest teams unless you get lucky. I can just buy the power bolts and kill you when no characters would have even been able to get thru. And if I stack up on mask characters do play distraction and relentless tug of war, no one is going to be able to compete with that. It can turn into almost the thing game with different sets. Its much easier to use what your used to instead of figuring out how to use a new thing like teamwork or teamwatch. Playing with the set BACs is much more fun to play, in my opinion, because everyone is playing within the scope of the set design.
    And like Lastmanonearth said, not everyone is going to have a library of 70+ BACs to choose from to find an exploit with one of the cards. Starts to make the limitedness of it less meaningful. Especially at some places like one of my local shops where most of the players are more casual and love playing drafts, but maybe 1/4 of them will show up for constructed.
    I dont mind playing with all BACs, I just think its better overall to keep it limited.

  14. #14
    We don't allow BAC from outside the set we are drafting. Two reason for this are 1) Sets are designed to be self contained. Therefore, it is the basic actions that come in the sets starter that are meant to be played in the set. 2) It breaks with the tradition of a limited format (spirit of the game). This is the only game I've run across in which you can play in a limited format and then go out and pick cards from outside that set to play. It feels like drafting in Magic and when you are done, going back and grabbing dual lands and using the argument that because every set comes with land, you should be allowed to play with them.


    It makes the playing field uneven if you allow basic actions from any set as well. Let's take 2 players, John and Jacob. John started playing with Age of Ultron because he watched the movie and thought it was cool and has been playing a lot of Dice Masters with Age of Ultron. Next, you have Jacob, better known as Mr Gobby/Tsarina. He has been playing since released and has 4 gravity feeds on pre-orders for the foreseeable future and is proud to have at least one of every card to date.

    Both players are in a draft and John keeps seeing all of these common Giant Man cards that he doesn't get because he hasn't seen any good ways to spin him up (passed or from the dice rainbow). Jacob is overjoyed to have 4 copies of the 3 cost Giant Man now that the draft is done. So why was John not happy to see Giant Man and Jacob was? Simple, Jacob has access to Polymorph. He can build a team by default that John cannot. The playing field has been broken because basic action cards have been allowed from outside the set.

  15. #15
    The way Wiz Kids opperates their drafts at big events allows BACs from all sets. Running the game any other way does a disservice to players who are looking to be competitive at the highest levels.

    However, I do appreciate having in set only sealed events. My recommendation is to do in set only BACs as a release event, and for all OP and official WKES reported events, use all BACs.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    The way Wiz Kids opperates their drafts at big events allows BACs from all sets. Running the game any other way does a disservice to players who are looking to be competitive at the highest levels.
    I'm looking to bootstrap a local community and will have a number of absolute newcomers. I'm not grooming them for Nationals in their first event, kthx.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jigsawhc View Post
    Everyone gets 1 point for each win they get.
    So players with fast, good teams have an advantage over slow, good teams? Since they can fit in multiple matches against the same person and rack up extra points?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    The way Wiz Kids opperates their drafts at big events allows BACs from all sets. Running the game any other way does a disservice to players who are looking to be competitive at the highest levels.

    However, I do appreciate having in set only sealed events. My recommendation is to do in set only BACs as a release event, and for all OP and official WKES reported events, use all BACs.
    True, and I totally agree if the goal is to set people up for national event. But as an event organizer, my responsibility is to the entire group, not the select few. Keeping the format balanced is a big part of keeping the player base happy and continuing to come back and play. So for my player base, playing with all BAC is a disservice to the players.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    So players with fast, good teams have an advantage over slow, good teams? Since they can fit in multiple matches against the same person and rack up extra points?
    I guess in theory that would be the case but we've never had it happen. Most people get 2 games in unless both players wall up and go to time.

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