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Thread: Ultron Drone and Overcrush

  1. #1

    Ultron Drone and Overcrush

    I've heard top players who I respect at both TRP and DA say that an Ulron Drone given Overcrush with Hulk Out will overcrush it's damage to the opponent. I feel like I'm missing something because I though overcrush damage only happens if the blocking character is knocked out, but Ultron Drone captures the blocker. Can someone explain to me why this works the way it does?

    The AoU Rulebook Lexicon defines Overcrush on page 26.

    Overcrush: When attacking, if this character knocks out all of its blockers, it deals any leftover damage to your opponent.

    Ultron Drone common and uncommon read:

    Captue any enemy character dice blocking Ultron Drone.

    Capture each enemy character dice blocking Ultron Drone...

  2. #2
    In my opinion your right, there is nothing wrong, but if you think a little further and read these Threads on WKRules you will see that it is possible.

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...ercrush#p13883
    As a preliminary matter, the fact that the language in the parentheses on the Anger Issues – Basic Action Card is not identical to the language in the rulebook does not mean that the Overcrush ability granted by Anger Issues is any different than the ability as defined by the rulebook. Language in parentheses on cards are there as a reminder regarding issues implied by the rules, and do not substantively impact play.
    And here
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...ercrush#p10702
    you have this:
    If an attacker with Overcrush attacks and the blocker is removed or KO’d (by a Global Ability or action for example) and has no other blockers, all damage would be dealt to the opponent’s life.

    The same can be said for Doctor Octopus – Fully Armed. If his blocker(s) is/are removed, Doc Ock would deal all damage to the opponent’s life.
    And here:
    As an initial matter, as indicated in the ruling at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5861, the different wording between the Overcrush definition in the rulebook and the text on the Anger Issues Basic Action Card is inconsequential. The Overcrush granted by Anger Issues is the same as the Overcrush defined in the rulebook.

    As to your question, your opponent would take zero damage. The application of damage due to Overcrush requires the condition that “this character knocks out all of its blockers.” In your situation, the sidekick is not knocked out, and thus the Overcrush ability does not trigger.
    One solution, either the WK-Crew doesnt know where is up and down or
    they just stated that the Cards with Overcrush Text on it are like an additional Text to the Overcrush Ruletext in the B




    NOTE: AOU is newest rulebook but i am not sure how to handle it with the older posts on WKForum.

  3. #3
    Capturing the blocker, removes it from play, which effectively reduces its defence value to 0
    With out over-crush the drone is still blocked
    With over crush, it is doing damage above the defence value of 0

  4. #4
    A better explanation would be, if a character is out of play, it can't be blocking anything.

    The confusion arises after that realization, from the rule that once blocked, always blocked.

    To expand on this, the calculation for overcrush is performed at the time of damage resolution. Thus, only characters that are blocking at that moment are factored into the phrase "all blocking characters".

    On the other hand, " blocked or unblocked" is only calculated at the time of the declare blockers step. After this step, what ever happens to blockers is irrelevant to whether a character is considered blocked or unblocked at the damage resolution step.

  5. #5
    It's slightly easier to understand if you use one of the following alterations:

    Overcrush: When attacking, if this character knocks out all of its existing blockers, it deals any leftover damage to your opponent.

    Overcrush: When attacking, if this character knocks out or removes all of its blockers, it deals any leftover damage to your opponent.

    In both cases, a one-time blocker will cause the attacker to retain its blocked status ("once blocked, always blocked"). But if the blocker no longer exists, due to KO or game effect, leftover damage goes to opponent (and attacker returns to field).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    A better explanation would be, if a character is out of play, it can't be blocking anything.

    The confusion arises after that realization, from the rule that once blocked, always blocked.

    To expand on this, the calculation for overcrush is performed at the time of damage resolution. Thus, only characters that are blocking at that moment are factored into the phrase "all blocking characters".

    On the other hand, " blocked or unblocked" is only calculated at the time of the declare blockers step. After this step, what ever happens to blockers is irrelevant to whether a character is considered blocked or unblocked at the damage resolution step.
    Yeah - Shadowmeld's explanation is "more" correct
    Mine is just easier to remember ....:P

  7. #7
    They should add that in the next rulebook. I mean they have plenty of space aon the sides.

  8. #8
    Wizkids should just adopt my vision. Characters that leave the attack zone, also lose any status gained because of attacking or blocking. So, when the blocker was captured, it would lose its "blocking" status. Ultron Drone is still in the attack zone, so it still keeps its "blocked" status.

    Now you have a "blocked" Ultron Drone, but there are no characters that are considered "blocking" it. Done, current rules cover this situation.

    As an added bonus, this would get rid of the stupid "Angel is blocked, and distracted, but still deals his 2 damage" malarkey, and the world would make sense again.

  9. #9
    "When you capture a die, move the captured die to your field and place your capturing die on top of it. The captured die no longer exists for game purposes."

    The current rulebook addresses your first scenario. Your second, well...

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmonkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bestia View Post
    Yeah - Shadowmeld's explanation is "more" correct
    Mine is just easier to remember ....:P
    Thanks for the clarity on this everyone. Just to finalize this. Since the Ultron Drone has overcrush, it would deal its full damage to your opponent and go to the used pile.
    Incorrect. It attacked, it was blocked but not KO'd, so it would return to the field. Only unblocked attackers go to Used.

  12. #12
    Nope. Ultron was being blocked so hence him staying on the field at the end of the turn. He deals his full damage because the capture is a 0/0 and overcrush procs dealing his full attack damage.

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