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Thread: Doomcaliber Knight - Dark Calvary: application of the ability

  1. #1

    Doomcaliber Knight - Dark Calvary: application of the ability



    SITUATION:
    Both I and my opponent have the above Professor X card in our teams. I have a level 3 Doomcaliber Knight die fielded.
    During my opponent's turn, he uses PXG. I apply the DCK ability, spinning the die down once.

    QUESTION:
    Does the application of DCK's ability once prevent the use of PXG entirely or just one of the two PXGs available?

    (a) Yes, because DCK's ability prevents the use of that global ability en total : it cannot be used again in this turn, either by me or my opponent.

    (b) No, it only affects a single occurrence of the global. Since I also have a card with that global, I must spin DCK down again to prevent the use of the other PXG (assuming my opponent attempts to use PXG a second time). This is along the lines of being able to use the Resurrection global twice if both I and my opponent brought that basic action card: two instances of the same global = being able to apply that ability twice.

  2. #2
    I assume from what it says for DCK " you must spin this monster down one level to cancel the ability and prevent THAT ABILITY from being used AGAIN this turn." So you cancel it and they cant PXG again.

  3. #3
    I would say he must be spin down again if he uses the second PXG. There are 2 PXG Abilities on the field, same like double Resurrection or Red Dragon Global. So keep a Polymorph ready to lvl up him.
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...rection#p16288

  4. #4
    Yeah but that's villanous Pact. It says so on the card "Pay Once per turn, during your turn, if you have no dice in your Prep Area, you may draw a die and place it in your Prep Area." You already paid a mask and there's one in the prep. It cant be used again. The only time you can prep a die twice is two Resurrection cards.

    But this is different. As the card says, you spin down, that ABILITY cant be used again. Professor X may be two separate cards, but it is still the same ability in the end.

  5. #5
    There is first nothing with Villain Pact, it is resurrect. dont know where you get this?!?

    And second i wouldnt go so far and point out a Word in the Text anymore without a confirmation. It is more a guessing for both of us.

  6. #6
    Villanous Pact. If there are no dice in your prep area, pay a mask to prep a die. If you used yours there should be a prepped die. Use it again but instead your opponents, it will not work because a die has already been prepped from yours. With Resurrection it does not matter.

    As for DoomCal, I'm assuming but it does say clearly once spun down the ability cant be used again. Hence the two professor X Globals still being the same global.

    Speculation but that's how I'll interpret it
    Last edited by VastSpartan; 08-18-2015 at 05:58 AM.

  7. #7
    The two Professor X's are not the same character.

    Think of one as Professor X (Earth 178) and the other as Professor X (Earth 65478).

    Now, Professor X (Earth 178) has the ability, using just the power of his mind, to teleport people from one place to another.

    Professor X (Earth 65478), however, has control over mass transit systems, allowing him to aid people's travel so they can very quickly move from one place to another.

    Both these abilities are represented on their cards in the same way:

    Global: Pay . Move up to 2 Sidekick dice from your used pile to your prep area.

    So, although the two globals are worded the same, and have exactly the same effect, they are, in fact, not the same global, but two entirely separate globals.

    That's the way I think if it, anyway.

  8. #8
    I still see it as the same ability. It's still the same global too.

    Why are you bringing up comic books in a Dice masters discussion?

    Also, what about the Villanous Pact argument? Once used, the second is negated right?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    I still see it as the same ability. It's still the same global too.
    Let's look at this as a thought experiment. The premise is that DCK preventing one instance of PXG means that a second instance of PXG is also prevented.

    If this is the case then it follows that one instance of Resurrection's global (RezA, let's call it) being prevented by DCK means a second instance (RezB) is also prevented.

    If RezA and RezB are the same ability and the same global why am I allowed to use both instances?

  10. #10
    @Scorpion0x17 is trying to tie game mechanics to theme.

    Game mechanics-wise, based on the FAQ and the WKRF rulings, I would say it's fairly clear that if both players bring a Global, they are treated as two separate Globals that have the same effect. So the Globals that are "Once per turn" can be "used" twice, since you're using the two different Globals each once per turn.

    The reason Villainous Pact doesn't work is because when you try to use the second Global, your Prep area is no longer empty.

    You could think of it like this:



    Two different Globals that do the same thing.

  11. #11
    Are we talking with DCK present or just resurrection at it's free will using it?

    If DCK isn't present Ill look at the card text for Resurrection "Once during your turn, pay to draw a die from your bag and place it in your prep area"

    Hmm, they are two separate cards but it does say Once per turn. In the case for Villanous Pact it does make sense but for Resurrection it doesn't negate the effect. It just prep's a die once for one card. The other is available too. It makes sense to me when it just says Once per turn in the case of this card. Not for the other.

    If DCK is present and it does spin down, the effect is negated and I cant use it again. If there's double for Resurrection.

    Needs an official ruling.

    In my case for this, I pick Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	2635. Ramp up, Ill kill you quicker.

  12. #12
    They are still technically the same, just monster and character. And are from two separate sets.

    With two different effects in the black text.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    @Scorpion0x17 is trying to tie game mechanics to theme.
    Indeed.

    I am taking a known game mechanic and giving a thematic explanation for why it works the way it works.

    (and frankly I am surprised this is even being questioned - the FAQ is extremely clear about how this works in terms of game mechanics)

  15. #15
    The Recruiting and Trainer example is the clearest most irrefutable example of how DCK only turns off the global on one card, and if there are two copies, the other is still usable.

  16. #16
    Hmm true. But I still see the same wording.

    It needs an official rule.

  17. #17
    Q: If a Global Ability says I may only use it once per turn, can I use my copy and my opponent’s copy of the same ability?
    A: The short answer is yes! It doesn’t matter if you have the same exact character (two Silver Surfer, Sky-Riders) as your opponent, or two different versions of the same character (Silverado and Sky-Rider).
    http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/

    There is your ruling, @VastSpartan .

    The only way it can work for "once per turn" globals is for them to be treated as two separate and distinct abilities.

  18. #18
    Thank you all for your insight. The examples of the 2 Prof X cards and the Silver Surfer ruling give me the basis for going with option (b) in the initial post (pending any official ruling): it only affects a single occurrence of the global. Since I also have a card with that global, albeit the same card, both cards are unique components of the game state (the rulings on Resurrection and Silver Surfer establish this). Hence, I must spin DCK down again to prevent the use of the second PXG.

    The text on DCK helps substantiate this (emphasis added):
    If an opponent uses a global ability, you must spin this monster down one level to cancel the ability and prevent that ability from being used again this turn.

    The underlined words lead me to assume DCK cancels one global ability, regardless if it is present on cards both players have brought and the examples cited substantiate that assumption.

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