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Thread: I ran a pretty sweet event the other week

  1. #1

    I ran a pretty sweet event the other week

    So, at the store I judge at (Victory Comics in Falls Church, VA), I created a format for an event we were having, with ultra OP-card prize kits for 1st-10th or so places, with 1st getting almost 15 or so, mostly prize, not participation, Marvel OP cards from the first OP set released, from what we've had left over, since we're just not really getting into running events weekly.

    I figured that Dice Masters is already cheaper than drafting or doing a sealed in Magic or HeroClix, and it WAS a super large prize pool, so it wasn't totally unreasonable to have a slightly higher buy in.

    First of all, it was a hybrid where you could bring 2 cards with a max 6 dice spread between them, with no minimum or maximums other than what the card says (so you could do 2-4, 3-3, whatever), and on your final team after drafting, you have to at least keep 4 dice from the 6 with the two cards, spread how you like, and can add dice to the cards if you pull them. You had to choose one BAC (from any set) before making your team, along with your two cards you brought with, and then could choose you second after drafting. We used Age of Ultron, and thank God had BARELY just enough.

    Basically, each person bought 21 packs (three in the prize pool), with 8 people showing up (always an even number so I don't get to play, lol ). Then, everyone opened six random packs at a time, three times, making three stacks of twelve cards, and not putting the dice in the middle quite yet. After each random stack of 12 cards was made, everyone looked through each of their three stacks, and chose one to keep, along with its corresponding dice, putting it, along with the 12 dice, aside, and then everyone sorted the dice in the middle to start a regular Rainbow Draft. One stack passed left, one stack passed right, and then everyone got the corresponding 24 more dice from the middle, and made their teams, including the one BAC and two character/action cards, with a minimum of four dice between them, choosing another BAC after drafting/making their team.

    People tended to like the base they got to keep, because it gave people the opportunity to really have almost, if not fully, 20 dice, and have fully fleshed out, more thought out teams, as well. Also, spending $21+6% sales tax is still cheaper than a two pack HeroClix, or whatever it is for Magic, draft or sealed. Everyone honestly had a good time, with I'd say only one person unhappy at the pack they kept, but that's as much a product of making a poor choice, as anything else, as most people loved it - especially the newer dude who made the same mistake we all have, and drafted one of each different card, not thinking about stacking up on dice; he was pleasantly surprised when he was able to look at the 12 he kept and it had some matching dice of what he drafted, lol.

    Anyway, at the store, I play just one game in 40 minute rounds, which then go to turns, and if nobody is at 0 life at the end of those five turns, with the person whose turn it is when time is called being turn zero, it's a tie game. I'd like to do 2/3 rounds, but I'd want to give it at least 50 minutes, and even then, there's usually 1-2 games that do barely finish just one game, so it's been working so far not doing 2/3... when we've tried that, it was rushed and a lot of rounds weren't decided by the winner of 2/3 games.

    I just really hate the concept of the person with more life winning when time/turns is out, because life is a resource in this game, and until it hits zero, you and your opponent are absolutely equal - it just completely discourages more types of team building, such as using the Silver Surfer Global, because your opponent could play more just to stall while you're at a little less health until it goes to turns, rather than having to go for the win.

    Anyway, I thought I'd share what was a pretty sweet event, that everyone really enjoyed, and the weird little format that I made for it.

    Sorry for my anything but concise style of typing.

  2. #2
    Sounds great event, man i wished could do this here, it would be wonderland, open a big box of cards and dice !


    Some question can please explain me this one here a little more in detail?

    Anyway, at the store, I play just one game in 40 minute rounds, which then go to turns, and if nobody is at 0 life at the end of those five turns, with the person whose turn it is when time is called being turn zero, it's a tie game. I'd like to do 2/3 rounds, but I'd want to give it at least 50 minutes, and even then, there's usually 1-2 games that do barely finish just one game, so it's been working so far not doing 2/3... when we've tried that, it was rushed and a lot of rounds weren't decided by the winner of 2/3 games.
    Correct me if i missunderstand something here please!

    So you say, 1 Match is 40 Minutes.

    What do you mean with 5 Turns? Do you mean that at the end of the time you say, "ok guys you have 5 Turns to finish this beginning with starting player, otherwise it is a tie." ?

    The Storekeepers have the attitude that there are no Ties and doing this "Times up who hase more life?" thing and since i am gonna be in charge for events now, i want to prevent this at any cost. But even so we have when not at least 2 players that need more than an hour, not only to there competitive skill but also to not preparation they doing before a match.


    But here my question, how do you decide rankings/points if you have much people with Ties.

    I will go Best Of 3 Matches with SWISS-System and try to give them 1 Hour per Match(we have 5 Hours should be enough) and then give them ties for the matches they couldnt play because of time. I am just try fizzling out how to decide points or rankings for them.

    Since a BO3 that finished just 1 Game will give the winner of the first round the win of the Match.

    Well thanks in advance and i hoped i didnt bombed your thread.^^


    And thanks too for the great insight and informations of your event. Helps me alot!^^

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    Sounds great event, man i wished could do this here, it would be wonderland, open a big box of cards and dice !


    Some question can please explain me this one here a little more in detail?


    Correct me if i missunderstand something here please!

    So you say, 1 Match is 40 Minutes.

    What do you mean with 5 Turns? Do you mean that at the end of the time you say, "ok guys you have 5 Turns to finish this beginning with starting player, otherwise it is a tie." ?

    The Storekeepers have the attitude that there are no Ties and doing this "Times up who hase more life?" thing and since i am gonna be in charge for events now, i want to prevent this at any cost. But even so we have when not at least 2 players that need more than an hour, not only to there competitive skill but also to not preparation they doing before a match.


    But here my question, how do you decide rankings/points if you have much people with Ties.

    I will go Best Of 3 Matches with SWISS-System and try to give them 1 Hour per Match(we have 5 Hours should be enough) and then give them ties for the matches they couldnt play because of time. I am just try fizzling out how to decide points or rankings for them.

    Since a BO3 that finished just 1 Game will give the winner of the first round the win of the Match.

    Well thanks in advance and i hoped i didnt bombed your thread.^^


    And thanks too for the great insight and informations of your event. Helps me alot!^^
    I totally don't mind, the WES is a bumblecluster to deal with.

    By 5 turns and 1 round, I mean, I don't do best of 3 games. I'd like to, but it just would take a little bit too long. And the turns part means when I call time, the current player is on turn zero (the person whose turn it is when time is called), and the game ends at the end of turn 5, period. And yeah, usually we could fit in a two out of three game with most players, but 25% of the games usually go to time/turns, which is enough to make me just do one round, which nobody has complained about.

    Also, I don't know what to tell you about the ties. The WES automatically keeps track of strength of schedule and does the automatic pairings based on it as well, so even if people have the same amount of points at the end (let's say 1 win, 1 loss, 1 tie, for 4 total points, 1 from the tie, 3 from the win), the person who played people with a better overall record gets the placing ahead of the other people with the same score.

    I haven't run an event yet where having a tie interfered with handing out prizes or the placings in any way, whatsoever.

    The WES does all of this for you when you enter it into the Event that you're running, pairing by SoS after each round, and by score, obviously, and at the end, ranking people, first on total points, and then SoS when people tie for points. It's a perfectly valid way to determine standings, and not "allowing" a tie is just stupid. I could make a team that's built to do 1 damage and completely turtle up (exaggeration, but still), and then when we've gone to 40 minutes and turns, they're still up 20-19; that person is not a winner, and I do not encourage that mentality at the store.

    I guess that I'm lucky enough not to have the owners breathing down my neck about how to run things, as long as everything is going smoothly and product is being sold (when I told the games manager I had 8 people coming to buy 21 boosters each he let out this squeal of joy, it was so funny and awesome).

    I'd say for Best of 3 that you either need to make the rounds longer, or move it to just one game. Three is much better, of course, but, really, in a best of 3, if someone won game 1 and time is over in the middle of game 2, it should still be a tie, as nobody technically won 2/3 games... another reason I prefer just to run one game. If you/your team really are good, even if you lose once, you'll make up for it and at least come in second or so and win your other matches.

    Also, sorry if I didn't answer your questions, but you must've been posting on a phone or something because half of that didn't make half sense :-/ Sorry, let me know if I can clear anything up.

    And if you didn't know... a win gives the person 3 points, loser gets 0. In a tie, both get 1 point. After each round, the WES pairs people based on their overall points/SoS. At the end, it lists 1st-last place, starting with the person with most points and hardest SoS (if two people tie in most points), and goes down in standings, starting with points, and using SoS (strength of schedule) to determine point tie-breakers. For instance, if I played 3 people with an overall record of 3-0. 2-1, 1-2, that would combine for 6-3 for a .667 SoS, and if someone else had the same points as me, but played three people at 2-1, 1-2, and 1-2, combining for 4-5, they would have a SoS of 0.444, and I would win that tie-breaker for that placing.

  4. #4
    Na na my english just getting worse with every day i using it ^^. It was written in the night, couldnt sleep and so on.

    But thanks for the answers i will see how to deal with it next week.

    We use Magic Programm for it. But i will recommend the Point System from WES for it with Paper and Pen!

  5. #5
    The event sounds like an interesting one. I'd gladly pay more for better prize support.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlapsterMcFlash View Post
    I'd say for Best of 3 that you either need to make the rounds longer, or move it to just one game. Three is much better, of course, but, really, in a best of 3, if someone won game 1 and time is over in the middle of game 2, it should still be a tie, as nobody technically won 2/3 games... another reason I prefer just to run one game. If you/your team really are good, even if you lose once, you'll make up for it and at least come in second or so and win your other matches.
    How is 1-0 not a convincing enough lead?

  6. #6
    Hm i could organize it like that:
    Variant A:
    1:0 = 2:0 = 2:1 = 1 Win = 3 Points
    0:0 = 1:1 = 1 Tie = 1 Point Both
    0:1 = 0:2 = 1:2 = 1 Loss = 0 Points


    or Variant B:
    1 Win per Match = 2 Points
    per played Round in a Match = 1 Point

    A vs B = 2:1
    A = 7
    B = 5

    C vs D = 1:1 and started last game
    C = 4
    D = 4

    E vs F = 1:0
    E = 3
    F = 1

    G vs H = 0:0
    G = 1
    H = 1

    I like Variant A more, more simple, not abusive and you can give some time for the second match to bring out a decider.
    In Variant B i tried to reduce the abuse of not winning games but G vs H shows us that not winning a single game but playing slow or long game will give you same points as someone who lost 1 time. Also you have to adjust like in an Double Elimination That Top playing against mid or low player.



    Also you mentioned, that you had an even Number so you couldnt play.:

    Well i the following idea for this problem.:

    Lets say 9 People want to participate in the event.
    You give someone that doesnt play in the tournament the 9 pieces of paper with the numbers 1 - 9 on it. Let him draw on one of papers a Symbol.
    Everybody draws a piece of paper from him/her.
    The one with the Symbol on it will play two times, against the 9 person. Ofcourse this takes more time and can stall the people who needs the results to play against.

  7. #7
    Variant B favors aggro decks. Not sure I like a tournament structure that favors one play style over another.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    The event sounds like an interesting one. I'd gladly pay more for better prize support.

    How is 1-0 not a convincing enough lead?
    Well, if the point is to play 2/3 games to see who's the best, then that hasn't actually happened. What about people who lost the first game and then came back to win the next 2?

    If it's going to be two out of three, it fully has to be, or else it's a tie if not completed.

    Sort of the same for why I don't call it a win if, after turns and time, one person has 20 life and one has 1.

    That's why I just do one game, period. The game has such varied speed decks that 2/3 would work for the majority of games, but not enough for me to want to run that.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    Hm i could organize it like that:
    Variant A:
    1:0 = 2:0 = 2:1 = 1 Win = 3 Points
    0:0 = 1:1 = 1 Tie = 1 Point Both
    0:1 = 0:2 = 1:2 = 1 Loss = 0 Points


    or Variant B:
    1 Win per Match = 2 Points
    per played Round in a Match = 1 Point

    A vs B = 2:1
    A = 7
    B = 5

    C vs D = 1:1 and started last game
    C = 4
    D = 4

    E vs F = 1:0
    E = 3
    F = 1

    G vs H = 0:0
    G = 1
    H = 1

    I like Variant A more, more simple, not abusive and you can give some time for the second match to bring out a decider.
    In Variant B i tried to reduce the abuse of not winning games but G vs H shows us that not winning a single game but playing slow or long game will give you same points as someone who lost 1 time. Also you have to adjust like in an Double Elimination That Top playing against mid or low player.



    Also you mentioned, that you had an even Number so you couldnt play.:

    Well i the following idea for this problem.:

    Lets say 9 People want to participate in the event.
    You give someone that doesnt play in the tournament the 9 pieces of paper with the numbers 1 - 9 on it. Let him draw on one of papers a Symbol.
    Everybody draws a piece of paper from him/her.
    The one with the Symbol on it will play two times, against the 9 person. Ofcourse this takes more time and can stall the people who needs the results to play against.
    I'm not saying it's impossible to have byes... the WES, which you're supposed to run events through, makes all the pairings for you, and gives the bye to whoever should be getting it, but as the judge, I'm not going to jump in and play, and force someone else to take a bye, when I'm the judge. If there's an odd number and I can fill it in to be even, I'll put my prize support into the pool that I normally get as the judge, and maybe win or don't, but even then, egos are real things that we all have, and we all like to win, and even if I already HAVE the prize, as the judge, it's better not to play at all, because even if your only stake is winning... nobody *likes* losing, psychologically, so it's not ideal to have the person judging everything also playing, if possible to prevent.

    That being said, I've always been fair and nobody has every disliked the rulings I've made, and when I haven't been 100% sure, I still make the best ruling I can and look it up ASAP, but staying consistent throughout the rest of that event. I hate when people make you hang for a simple ruling for ten minutes... it's like the quote from Ghostbusters 1, "When somebody asks you are you a God, YOU SAY YES!"

    I've also been lucky enough that so far, all of the rulings that I've made and not been 100% on, were actually the right rulings when I went to go look them up, and nobody has any problem with me playing; it's always a joke whether or not it'll be odd so I can jump in.

    But, ideally, there are a couple of people at a venue who are WES volunteers/judges, so you can switch off and both play, OR, you have other venues around you.

    I also feel like you're making tournament pairings a lot more complicated than they need to be; there's been a system around for years that works perfectly, I'm not sure what all this drawing symbols stuff is.

  10. #10
    Like i said it is an idea, and you have right in all your points, but for my case we will not use WES system so i have to do it Analog with a little Help of an Magic Programm.

    And i dont know how the Magic Programm works from Wizard of the coast. Thats why i have to learn and coordinate until we finally use WES.

    As an bad example how to not run a league,here is our league:

    Unlimited, every Week or 2 should be a pairing. Well now it is over 3-4 weeks already and i got a bye,so i am betrayed to play because someone went in some hours to late for registration in June.
    My understanding is, if we players doesnt start first events and bring in the rules and all this stuff... there will be no good system. We have something like 12 Players,only 4 active and we are the only community in east germany ;__; .

    But yes i will use variant A , the WES point system and when registration ends and we have even number(me included) it is closed,should there be the ouccurance that 2 guys coming later in a small time difference, then they can enter if it is the first match.


    These symbol is just a old mechanic like drawing a straw secretly . i dont want to give someone a bye in a even or tournament, because if it is just 3 round swiss, it would not be fun for this person. Playing = Fun, Not playing = no fun. Simple


    Edit: I found a pdf on wizard where the DIC explained Swiss rules are. I was wrong and right at the same time somehow.

    Variant A and B are used together. A is the normal case. If there are Ties Variant B is for the Rounds played in the matches to do Rankings.
    Last edited by Ressless; 08-20-2015 at 04:03 PM.

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