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Thread: SHIELD Agent - Need to Know Basis

  1. #1

    SHIELD Agent - Need to Know Basis

    * During your Roll and Reroll step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or [Avengers] character dice.
    Has this been ruled on?

    I expect you're simply able to add SHIELD Agents or Avengers from the field to your roll, sort of like Booster Gold, and that if you have an empty field this ability does nothing, but I'm not certain.

  2. #2
    Well as the card is written, you add what you can and want if 1 shield agent is on burst face. It is a interesting version of Ramp, so you could swap your field with other characters you need if you roll them luckily

  3. #3
    It has not been ruled on.

    My reading is the same as yours.

    Other see at as a Scarlet Witch / Kang extra re-roll ability that only applies to S.H.I.E.L.D Agents and Avengers.

    I basically got told that I was that a complete idiot and no-one else could possibly read it the way I, you, and others, do, when I stated my reading of it, previously.

  4. #4
    Really where was it? I was also sure i saw in another thread this "is the Global source the source from a character" i think it was jocasta until i found old threads in the WKForum. Still at my Kompendium to complete it with the useful stuff.

  5. #5
    Ill agree with you on that. If it is a booster gold version its an interesting version of a re-roll.

  6. #6
    If this is a Booster Gold mechanic, it is not restricted to just your dice, meaning you could reroll opponents dice as well.

    The interpretation that requires the least addition text is one similar Scarlet Witch, which simply requires the phrase "one additional". Infact, without the limitation of one, you can reroll over and over based on the current wording.

    On top of all of this, there are two types of " reroll" effects in the current cards. The first rerolls "dice" or a "die" in your reserve pool or Prep Area(durring the Roll and Reroll step). The second "rerolls" a "character" in the field.

    Magneto is an exception in that he says "Die", but can target either thanks to a WKRF ruling.

    There maybe other exceptions to this, I haven't found one yet, but would be interested in finding them.

    As SHIELD Agents specifically says "die", and the " character" is simply a qualifying adjective to "die", we should assume this also means dice in the Reserve Pool or Prep Area.

    Note: character is present to prevent you from rerolling " Energy Dice" in your opponents reserve pool with this ability. Remember, your dice are technically rolled in the Prep area, so dice are either action dice, character dice or sidekicks while still in the Prep area being rolled.

  7. #7
    It'd be kind of cool to have a board full of Shield Agents and then reroll them all to energy for a sick Enrage turn. Maybe in combination with Iron Man - Tinhead global and Shield Helicarrier - Argonaut to go over the top. Tinhead's already doing 7 minimum, likely 10 to be unblockable, and then up to another 18 if you're the luckiest Shield Agent re-roller of all time.

    Could be fun.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    If this is a Booster Gold mechanic, it is not restricted to just your dice, meaning you could reroll opponents dice as well.

    The interpretation that requires the least addition text is one similar Scarlet Witch, which simply requires the phrase "one additional". Infact, without the limitation of one, you can reroll over and over based on the current wording.

    On top of all of this, there are two types of " reroll" effects in the current cards. The first rerolls "dice" or a "die" in your reserve pool or Prep Area(durring the Roll and Reroll step). The second "rerolls" a "character" in the field.

    Magneto is an exception in that he says "Die", but can target either thanks to a WKRF ruling.

    There maybe other exceptions to this, I haven't found one yet, but would be interested in finding them.

    As SHIELD Agents specifically says "die", and the " character" is simply a qualifying adjective to "die", we should assume this also means dice in the Reserve Pool or Prep Area.

    Note: character is present to prevent you from rerolling " Energy Dice" in your opponents reserve pool with this ability. Remember, your dice are technically rolled in the Prep area, so dice are either action dice, character dice or sidekicks while still in the Prep area being rolled.
    I agree that looking strictly at the wording, there's a lot of room for interpretation, but I think it's safe to say this is a Booster Gold mechanic restricted to your fielded dice OR a Scarlet Witch that only allows a bonus reroll of those two types of dice.

    I can't believe they haven't ruled on this yet and we're almost to War of Light. WIZ KIDS, SRSLY.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    If this is a Booster Gold mechanic, it is not restricted to just your dice, meaning you could reroll opponents dice as well.
    Argumentum ad absurdum.

    It is not unreasonable to simply take it as read that, if it is a Booster Gold mechanic, it only applies to your fielded dice, because at no other time, ever is it legal to pick up your opponents dice and add them to your roll at the start of your turn, likewise for the dice on the table next to you, or in your pocket, or at home, or any other place.

    Do you read Booster Gold's ability as meaning your opponent can pick him up and add him to their roll at the start of any turn?

  10. #10
    Booster Gold says add it to your roll, where this card simply says reroll. The significant difference is that if you add it to your roll, you get to not only reroll as the card suggests, but also roll it in the first place.

    This card doesn't say you can roll the Avengers, it says reroll. In all examples I can find, reroll is never used in replacement for text that means, add to your roll.

    However, reroll is the language used by Storm and Umber Hulk. This ability, likely references a Scarlet Witch like reroll effect, but if it doesn't, the other option is a Storm, Umber Hulk or Apocalypse like effect.

    Again, Booster Gold is NOT a "reroll" but an actual "roll".

  11. #11
    I can definitely see it being ruled either way.

  12. #12
    Either which ways?

    You see it that I can pick up all of my Avengers, roll them, and even reroll them, just because I have this guy in the field?

    Or you see that durring the Roll and Reroll step you can reroll your fielded characters and if they come up energy they go to the Reserve pool, but not the prep area along with your roll?

  13. #13
    I can see it being ruled as either:

    1. A Booster Gold type bank effect.
    2. A Scarlet Witch type additional reroll effect.

    I can not see it being ruled as anything involving one's opponent's dice.

  14. #14
    Booster Golds effect is not a reroll though.

    This card specifically says reroll. How can you reconcile that difference in this case?

  15. #15
    As I have said before, I can see it being ruled either way.

    When I first read the card I saw it as a Booster Gold style ability, and I know I am not alone in that.

    Others see it as a Scarlet Witch style ability.

    There is nothing, that I am aware of, in any of the card text, the rules, or previous rulings, that determined it to be unambiguously one or the other.

  16. #16
    I'm probably just too much of a simpleton, but I assumed that since it was during the roll/reroll step, it was the dice you were rolling that turn (the four from your bag plus any prepped that turn). I was using it to get a third chance for Wasp to come up character (or energy) as needed, or to get a SHIELD agent to the field to wall up with Groot (We Are Groot). I certainly agree that it would apply to my fielded dice, allowing me potentially to go big energy in any given turn, but I would be surprised if WizKids' intention was for it to be used against enemy fielded dice (not very thematic and potentially overpowered even if it's an edge case) and even less that we could reroll saved opponent energy in his/her reserve pool. However, how cool would it be if we could do that, get a character face, send it straight to used and foil PxG or other big global plans?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherpa View Post
    I'm probably just too much of a simpleton, but I assumed that since it was during the roll/reroll step, it was the dice you were rolling that turn (the four from your bag plus any prepped that turn). I was using it to get a third chance for Wasp to come up character (or energy) as needed, or to get a SHIELD agent...
    That is the "Scarlet Witch style" version of the ruling we're discussing.

    That seems to be the best explanation for the "reroll" wording, and likely how I will rule it moving forward.


  18. #18
    Format for these Effect:

    * During your Roll and Reroll step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or [Avengers] character dice
    While Scarlet Witch is Active, you may reroll any or all of your dice one additional time during the roll and reroll step.
    Requirement:
    * (While active on a burst face)
    "While Scarlet Witch is active"

    When:
    "During the roll and reroll step, "
    "... during the roll and reroll step."

    Do what:
    "you may reroll"
    "you may reroll"

    To what:
    "any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or [Avengers] character dice"
    "any or all of your dice"

    Other text or limiting factors:
    None (but likely to be assumed, "your" and "once")
    "one additional time"

    These two cards have almost the same wording, the only difference is the lack of a possessive and the lack of a limiting quantity of times they can be executed.

  19. #19
    Well, we kind of have an answer now:

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=7913

    The text of the card is not limited to dice rolled that turn or those controlled by the active player. As a result, you may use the burst ability to reroll S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent or Avenger dice (a) that you rolled from your bag or Prep Area that turn (effectively giving you a second reroll that turn) or (b) that are active in the Field Zone of either player.

  20. #20
    What a strange effect. Up until I saw that ruling I assumed it was Scarlet Witch-like.

  21. #21
    Yeah, with this ruling, they're now one of the strongest 2 cost control cards in the current format, given how popular avengers are.

  22. #22
    Haha, the ruling we never thought we'd get. Kudos to Shadowmeld for believing in the wording. Now if we could somehow give opposing characters the Avengers affiliation during our Roll and Reroll step.

    Jesus, they really are going to allow you to reroll your opponent's Avengers? That's so powerful and dumb. Even if I decided I liked the ability, my opponent is going to demand to see the rules forum for me to run it.

  23. #23
    Wow, that's completely crazy. I mean, insane. Bonkers.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by digitallimit View Post
    Haha, the ruling we never thought we'd get. Kudos to Shadowmeld for believing in the wording. Now if we could somehow give opposing characters the Avengers affiliation during our Roll and Reroll step.

    Jesus, they really are going to allow you to reroll your opponent's Avengers? That's so powerful and dumb. Even if I decided I liked the ability, my opponent is going to demand to see the rules forum for me to run it.
    yeah, the possible re-rolling of your opponents' dice is pretty ridiculous for them to rule

    that's just uncalled for

  25. #25
    I love it! More potential crazy in a game. When crazy is not regular and easy to achieve, i want it even more in competitive!

    It is like the Shotgun in Counter Strike. No one will buy her, but what if?!!? <_<

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