Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Baron Zemo: Helmut J. Zemo

  1. #1

    Baron Zemo: Helmut J. Zemo

    Given the ruling on SHIELD Agent: Need to Know Basis, can Baron Zemo: Helmut J. Zero "reroll" an opponent's active action die (e.g., Imprisoned, Cerebro)?

    Baron Zemo: Helmut J. Zemo
    While Baron Zemo is active, you may pay to reroll any number of Action Dice during your Roll and Reroll Step.
    SHIELD Agent: Need to Know Basis
    During your Roll and Reroll step, you may reroll any number of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or [Avengers] character dice.
    Last edited by Crestfallen; 08-26-2015 at 10:03 AM.

  2. #2
    I think you got the card details around the wrong way

  3. #3
    You should search what happens with a die like imprisoned.


    The card doesnt state the active ones in the field or the ones you have in your draw/prep area as ready dice.

    So i would say yes you can do that.

    But like i said,search first if an effect before baron zemo effect appears takes the die out of the play or in a captured stasis.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    You should search what happens with a die like imprisoned.

    The card doesnt state the active ones in the field or the ones you have in your draw/prep area as ready dice.

    So i would say yes you can do that.

    But like i said,search first if an effect before baron zemo effect appears takes the die out of the play or in a captured stasis.
    Active action dice are considered to be in the player's field even in the case of Imprisoned where the captured dice are considered to be Out of Play.

  5. #5
    So you mean, you could cancel a Ring of magnestism on a Character die that is imprisoned? I highly doubt that. The dice go out of play for effects. They are not reachable, as i understand it.

  6. #6
    Based on the new ruling, Constantine Anti-hero and Zatanna Backwards Magic both gain a broader scope to their abilities, along side this Baron Zemo.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    So you mean, you could cancel a Ring of magnestism on a Character die that is imprisoned? I highly doubt that. The dice go out of play for effects. They are not reachable, as i understand it.
    Ring of Magnetism and other action dice cannot be captured. Only characters can be captured unless otherwise stated. If it were attached when a character was captured, based on rules/rulings, the action die would go to the player's Used Pile. So, yes, capturing a character with the ring would essentially cancel the action die's effect.

    What I asking/implying, is Baron Zemo be used to reroll an opponent's Imprisoned die that is holding some characters out of play. The answer seems to be yes.
    Last edited by Crestfallen; 08-26-2015 at 10:59 AM.

  8. #8
    That i would underline too that he can cancel imprisoned.

    but this is not correct sorry:
    Ring of Magnetism and other action dice cannot be captured. Only characters can be captured unless otherwise stated. If it were attached when a character was captured, based on rules/rulings, the action die would go to the player's Used Pile. So, yes, capturing a character with the ring would essentially cancel the action die's effect.
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...it=Ring#p10961



    Meta Rule:
    When character dice are captured, dice that are attached to them (such as Ring of Magnetism) go with them. Such attached dice are also considered to not be in play for game purposes, and they return to the Field Zone with the die they were originally attached to. The same is true for dice that have the gear keyword in the upcoming D&D expansion. When characters that continuous dice are attached to are KO’d, or sent to the Used Pile, the continuous die follows.

  9. #9
    Actually according the the Rules errata (the one that added ocntinuous) when a character with an action die attached is captured the die follows along (this includes equipment)http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...87d201cadd0726 See the heading "Meta rule".

    Whoops, I should read to the end of the thread, Ressless has it.

  10. #10
    I would propose the intent of Baron Zemo's ability is not to reroll any action die in play (such as Imprisoned) but only those applicable dice that are the object of the ability (e.g. action dice) being rolled during the Roll and Reroll Step.

    The card's text specifically states the qualifying phrase: "during your Roll and Reroll Step" and by extension, applying this ability to those dice being rolled during this specific step . If the intent was to apply this ability to any other dice, then there would be no need to include these words.

    Professor X - Principal first used this convention to establish this connection - during the Roll/Reroll Step = dice being rolled during that step:

    "While Professor X is active, your opponent cannot reroll dice during the roll and reroll step. He or she can pay 2 life to prevent this effect for this turn."

    Constantine - Antihero and Zatanna - Backwards Magic have the same convention:

    "While Constantine is active, once per turn at the end of your opponent's Roll and Reroll Step, you may make that opponent reroll an action die."

    "While Zatanna is active, you may reroll your Sidekick dice once per turn (during the Roll and Reroll Step)."

    (Albeit you can argue that in the case of Zatanna you can also roll those Sidekick's in the field. However, to be consistent with other similar card abilities, I would say it is only those Sidekicks you are rolling during the Roll and Reroll Step.)

    Other card abilities that use the word reroll have specific times the reroll can be applied during other steps in the game sequence. Some examples:

    Giant Man - Pym Particles: "When Giant Man attacks, you may reroll him. You may return him to his original face." = reroll during the Attack Step

    Magneto - Holocaust global: "Pay 1 mask energy to reroll a Villain die." = reroll during the Main or Attack Steps, when you can use a global ability

    Storm = African Priestess: "When fielded, reroll a target opposing character. If the result is not a character, place that die in your opponent's used pile." = reroll during the Main Step

    So by specifically stating the Roll/Reroll Step in the card text, I am led to conclude the ability only applies to dice being rolled in that step.

  11. #11
    You clearly have not read the S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent ruling...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    The card's text specifically states the qualifying phrase: "during your Roll and Reroll Step" and by extension, applying this ability to those dice being rolled during this specific step . If the intent was to apply this ability to any other dice, then there would be no need to include these words.
    The S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent card includes that statement, and the official ruling directly conflicts with your conclusion (which is clearly why it was included in the OP).
    That phrase does nothing more than specify the time when you can use the ability, assuming anything else is merely wishful inference.

  13. #13
    Baron Zemo can definitely reroll your opponent's continuous dice that are in play such as Imprisoned or Ring of Magnetism.

    The real question is whether you are allowed to reroll the dice you used to pay for his ability (assuming it's a character die that you proceed to spin down from a double energy face). His ability is the only ability in the game that can be paid for in the roll and reroll step, so it is unclear whether this is just so that you're still subject to Constantine - Antihero's effect or if this means you can then go on to reroll the dice you used to pay for his ability (provided they remain in the reserve pool instead of being sent out of play).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    Baron Zemo can definitely reroll your opponent's continuous dice that are in play such as Imprisoned or Ring of Magnetism.

    The real question is whether you are allowed to reroll the dice you used to pay for his ability (assuming it's a character die that you proceed to spin down from a double energy face). His ability is the only ability in the game that can be paid for in the roll and reroll step, so it is unclear whether this is just so that you're still subject to Constantine - Antihero's effect or if this means you can then go on to reroll the dice you used to pay for his ability (provided they remain in the reserve pool instead of being sent out of play).
    In the UXM and BFF Rulebooks, it was extremely explicit that dice that had been used to pay for abilities were no longer able to be rerolled. They made a big point out of this.

    The newer rulebooks no longer have this language, but they do not have anything retracting it, so I would still consider this to be the case.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    In the UXM and BFF Rulebooks, it was extremely explicit that dice that had been used to pay for abilities were no longer able to be rerolled. They made a big point out of this.

    The newer rulebooks no longer have this language, but they do not have anything retracting it, so I would still consider this to be the case.
    Dice used to pay for abilities now go out of play (unless played during your opponents turn).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
    Dice used to pay for abilities now go out of play (unless played during your opponents turn).
    That rule was in effect by the time BFF came out, so the fact they still printed that rule confirms it's still valid.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
    Dice used to pay for abilities now go out of play (unless played during your opponents turn).
    The rule about rerolling dice used to pay for things is actually because it'd be theoretically possible to spend 1 energy off of a 2 energy die, reroll it into more energy or a character and then field it. Without the rule Magneto's global + a mask villain die could have some really weird results.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    The rule about rerolling dice used to pay for things is actually because it'd be theoretically possible to spend 1 energy off of a 2 energy die, reroll it into more energy or a character and then field it. Without the rule Magneto's global + a mask villain die could have some really weird results.
    Some people have more creative minds than I.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    You clearly have not read the S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent ruling...
    ah sh** I have and did not consider it in my analysis. My oversight.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •