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Thread: Apologies for me requiring an AvX rules clarification (after how long?!!??)

  1. #1

    Apologies for me requiring an AvX rules clarification (after how long?!!??)

    Hi there TRP community rules lawyers!

    I am waiting on an official ruling from WizKids on the query below, but while I am waiting for the answer to come back, I thought I'd put the collective hive-mind of the community to the test (minus the sad, temporary (?), loss of the synapse known as Randy).

    In two separate OP events at my FLGS – going back a year or so now - myself and my lad have both been brow-beaten into submission by grizzled veteran MtG players when it came to using what we thought was a fundamentally straight-forward and obvious Johnny Storm tactic…

    Card Text: While Human Torch is active, each time you field a character, Human Torch deals 1 damage to your opponent and one to a target character (not 1 damage per Human Torch die).

    A few scenarios:
    a) We have Johnny active in the field. We field a Sidekick (one damage to opponent) we then damage same Sidekick to send him to our own prep for extra energy
    b) We have Jonny active. We already have four Sidekicks in the field and we then field Gobby (SR) on level 1. We then field two more characters. Total damage to opponent: seven. We deal the latter two instances of character damage to Gobby to knock him out: recycling him back into prep.
    c) We field Johnny. We field a Sidekick (one damage to opponent) we then damage same Sidekick to send him to our own prep for extra energy
    d) We field Johnny. We already have four Sidekicks in the field and we then field Gobby (SR) on level 1. We then field two more characters. Total damage to opponent: seven. We deal the latter two instances of character damage to Gobby to knock him out: recycling him back into prep.

    My memory has faded now so I cannot recall whether scenarios a) and b) were ruled against or whether c) and d) were the problem. We were told that Johnny’s ability to cause character damage could only be used against a character not fielded on the same turn as his damage ability was being used directly on the opponent.

    I believe the case against involved some reworded version of summoning sickness combined with all characters being fielded simultaneously not in an ordered sequence. Forgotten exactly what was said, but at the time my suspicion was that grizzled gamers didn’t want a youngster (not me!) winning their tournament.

    This to me was arrant nonsense then and still is now. We are having our first non-rainbow draft OP, since this argument took place, in two weeks from now. I may end up using this very mechanic. Please tell me we were right! It's obvious isn't it....??

    Thanks very much in advance for any clarification! Paul.
    Last edited by Paul Atreides; 08-28-2015 at 05:54 AM.

  2. #2
    A) Yes, all play described is legal.
    B) Total Damage to opponent would be 6. 4 from Gobby ability and 2 from Human Torch ability. Yes, Human Torch character damage (2) in your scenario applied to Gobby would KO him. All play described is legal.
    C) Yes, all play described is legal.
    D) Same as B.

  3. #3
    By the mighty Emperor, never doubt on yourself Space Marine! You truly right, in all cases.

    I dont see why you cant use it for characters that you field. Because the Active player decides in which order the effects happens.

  4. #4
    Thanks for those quick replies! I'll print these response off to take to our OP in lieu of Wizkids coming back back to me any time soon. I was told by one ex-MtG player at one of my first ever OP events that my interpretation was wrong, I could not damage Gobby having just fielded him, and he would explain why I was wrong once we had finished the game, but could I please hurry up as we had to play through a best of 3 in 45 minutes (the good ol' days!)??

    If only the official rules forum was this proactive! Thanks again. Paul.

  5. #5
    Tell the ex-MTG player "This is Dice Masters, not Magic The Gathering, we do thing differently here".

    :P

    But, more seriously, there is no "summoning sickness" or anything like it in Dice Masters, characters are fielded, individually, one at a time, and all any effects that trigger due to fielding do so and resolve after each character is fielded and before anything else can occur.

    There is no stack.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by fun4willis View Post
    A) Yes, all play described is legal.
    B) Total Damage to opponent would be 6. 4 from Gobby ability and 2 from Human Torch ability. Yes, Human Torch character damage (2) in your scenario applied to Gobby would KO him. All play described is legal.
    C) Yes, all play described is legal.
    D) Same as B.
    You forgot the 1 damage Gobby causes from Human Torch.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    You forgot the 1 damage Gobby causes from Human Torch.
    D'oh!

    I even went back and edited that part in.

  8. #8
    I wasn't going to mention the forgotten damage out of politeness!! I was too chuffed that folks agreed with our original ruling.

    Not sure it's worth a new thread, as I see the mechanic as being the same core in essence, but at a DC rainbow draft OP recently my lad picked the Green Arrow: Oliver Queen with a view to using him in a similar fashion.

    Ability: When fielded, Green Arrow deals 2 damage to each of up to two target characters.

    Basically, when the situation suited it he planned to knock out Green Arrow himself (level 1 or 2) as the second character involved in his own ability, having already knocked out a die of the opposition, and then re-field him to potentially have an another swing on a later turn (say he couldn't knock out a beefy defence character but knew there was a good chance of a weaker one coming round next roll).

    When he tried this he was (again!) told "No. You can't do that on the same turn he's fielded". WHY NOT?

    I was playing my own game in the store and couldn't support him, but surely denying this tactic is incorrect once more?

    As for my ongoing personal gripe with some of the attitudes of old MtG-ers (not sure what the collective noun for them is....answers on a post-card) I have yet to recover from being bulldozed over at the UK national tournament - round one! - by a descendent of Genghis Khan's legal team (games division) when it came to how my Hellblazer ability should work on his Gobby/Tsarinas.

    It is safe to say I am still bitter to the core over it: I have a long memory Trevor...... I'll save the details for a delayed UK-scene OP tournament review maybe.

    Cheers again.

  9. #9
    Using Green Arrow in this manor would also be legal.

    Smart kid!

  10. #10
    Just to clarify, you aren't Fielding GA, sending him to Prep and rerolling him on the same turn, correct?

  11. #11
    Say it with me:

    "There is no summoning sickness in Dice Masters."

    :-)

    About the only thing you can't do (which you know) is trigger Human Torch with himself as he is being fielded initially, because he has to already be active and another character fielded to trigger. (Your C and D scenarios in the first post, which you did correctly).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Just to clarify, you aren't Fielding GA, sending him to Prep and rerolling him on the same turn, correct?
    Goodness me: No! The mechanic you've described there should only exist if Phil Coulson (subtitled: Tahiti) is the card that gets it!!

    PS Really enjoy your team building sections of the Prep Area podcasts. Cheers.

  13. #13
    Then yes, you are 100% correct here.

    And thanks, it is so much fun to do this, it makes it easy.

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