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Thread: Ring of Magnetism vs Direct damage

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    Ring of Magnetism vs Direct damage

    Does Ring of Magnetism - Action Attraction (Continuous. Play on a monster. Your opponent's action dice and abilities can only target that monster.)only protect monster/characters or does it protect players as well. Of course the direct damage players say that it only protects characters so that their damage will always go through but I feel they are wrong and I would like some sort of evidence to back my claim.

  2. #2
    If an effect COULD target a character (even if it is instead targeting a player) it MUST target the ring.

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    It makes all of your opponents actions, character abilities, and use of global abilities target whatever character you attach the ring to (yours of theirs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkellenb View Post
    My understanding is that the would not effect the Cheetah - Cursed Archeologist ability since the point of damage only targets the player.
    Correct. If it can only target the player, then it's fine. But if it can hit one or the other, it must hit the ring.

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    This would be forced to target a character



    This would not

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    My apologies -- you used a different card example so I thought you were asking about it specifically. I don't see any official ruling for Ring of Magnetism that explicitly mentions that abilities that only targets players are still valid. The first question in that ruling you linked asks "Does Ring of Magnetism affect all actions and abilities so long as they are ABLE to target characters?" so it may be inferred that they do need to target characters to be affected but it's never explicit.

    Personally, unless I hear otherwise, I would rule as Dave described above.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Correct. If it can only target the player, then it's fine. But if it can hit one or the other, it must hit the ring.
    Can you cite this interpretation in a rule book or official source. The wording on the Ring of magnetism is "all actions and abilities" from your opponent must target the character it attaches to. It does not specify player/character in this. So why wouldnt an ability that 'targets' a player be redirected by the ring, resulting in no legal targets (No 2 in the below situation)

    From WKhttp://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...gnetism#p12544
    1) Yes. Power Bolt would attempt to target the character. If that character wasn't a legal target, you could not use Power Bolt.
    2) An action or ability can't be used if there are 0 legal targets.
    3) See #2
    4) It could. You would do as much as possible. All characters would get a bonus, the Ring of Magnetism character would get +1A and +1D, and then no character would be a legal target for the 2nd +1A and +1D.

    -The Dice Masters Rules Team
    The ring forces the abilities to target the character it is attached to. if the ability targets the player, then there are no legal targets, since it must target the character. Thus #2 occurs.

    So I would argue direct damage to the player, while the ring is on a character, causes the direct damage to have no legal target.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromorph View Post
    Can you cite this interpretation in a rule book or official source. The wording on the Ring of magnetism is "all actions and abilities" from your opponent must target the character it attaches to. It does not specify player/character in this. So why wouldnt an ability that 'targets' a player be redirected by the ring, resulting in no legal targets (No 2 in the below situation)

    From WKhttp://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...gnetism#p12544


    The ring forces the abilities to target the character it is attached to. if the ability targets the player, then there are no legal targets, since it must target the character. Thus #2 occurs.

    So I would argue direct damage to the player, while the ring is on a character, causes the direct damage to have no legal target.
    The only way the damage could go to the player is if an ability could only target a player.
    Fist of Fury can only target a player and not a character, so the ring would never be a legal target.

  15. #15
    I really wish they had answered my questions about RoM.

    I broke all these various possible interactions down, and asked a specific, clear, yes/no, question about each one.

    But instead they chose answer ambiguous questions and give ambiguous answers.

    :-/

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    The only way the damage could go to the player is if an ability could only target a player.
    Fist of Fury can only target a player and not a character, so the ring would never be a legal target.
    Yes, The character with the ring cannot be a legal target, check for other legal targets? Oh look, it can only target the character with the ring.... No legal targets. The effect is null.

    Look at the DnD rule book pg 19 - Targeting and Redirecting section.

    Other powers redirect a game effect (usually damage). When an effect is redirected, the target of the effect changes from its original target to the new one chosen as described in the game text, even if that target was not a legal one for the original effect. The source of the effect remains unchanged from the original.
    Bolded the important part. The ring redirects "player only" effects to the character it is on where they then become illegal. With Lord of D, abilities that legally target characters, then become illegal too, since he cannot be the target.

    But the redirect is done with the Ring in the first place, "opponents actions and abilities can only target that monster".

    Am I reading something wrong here? If it targets only players, there is no legal target since they "can only target that monster"


    A lord of D with a Ring on it, pretty much negates all abilities and actions that target anything. You have to use combat damage, or non-targeting effects to stop the combo (Hulk damage, Storm, etc)

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    You are completely incorrect in every way. Essentially if an effect can target the ring monster it has to, it doesn't prevent every other ability that isn't allowed to. Players are not characters.

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    Also the ring doesn't say "redirect", so according to Jocasta it isn't a redirect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromorph View Post
    A lord of D with a Ring on it, pretty much negates all abilities and actions that target anything. You have to use combat damage, or non-targeting effects to stop the combo (Hulk damage, Storm, etc)
    By this reasoning, why do non-targeting effects get a pass? Gobby doesn't target characters at all, but your point is that since it is an opponent's ability it must target that character, and since it can't it fizzles. Fireball:

    is an opponent's action that doesn't target characters at all, but that didn't seem to bother you for Gobby - why doesn't Fireball fizzle?

    Personally, I think there is an implied limitation on Ring of Magnetism in that it only effects things that *could* target the monster wearing it. I think this is the natural way to read and understand the card, and simplifies a lot of possible questions like this.

  20. #20
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=3712

    We've been asked for some further clarification here.

    Effect A:
    Your opponent can't target this monster.

    Effect B:
    Your opponent can only target this monster.

    This can't and this can are not at odds with one another. Someone staring down a Lord of D. equipped with Ring of Magnetism would check for the ability to target a character (with Swords of Revealing Light for example). Effect A would stop you from choosing Lord of D. Effect B would stop you from choosing one of the player's other monsters. The end result is no legal targets.

    -The Dice Masters Rules Team

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    Unfortunately the above ruling doesn't answer what happens with abilities that cannot legally target one's opponent's characters.

    And that is where most of the debate lies around how RoM works.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Unfortunately the above ruling doesn't answer what happens with abilities that cannot legally target one's opponent's characters.

    And that is where most of the debate lies around how RoM works.
    That I do understand, the fact that it doesn't have an if able clause in the text makes it more difficult. They should errata just that into the text and there would be no problems. Most of the time questions only come up because on certain cards it's missing a few words to make the rulings obvious.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    Most of the time questions only come up because on certain cards it's missing a few words to make the rulings obvious.
    And when we do get rulings they too are often missing those few words that would make them unambiguously clear!

    But, yeah, I've said it numerous times - if they could really get to grips with the card texts, then the dmrulesteam's job would be made easier, and it wouldn't matter so much if we didn't get any rulings for a month or two, because the questions would only be about really obscure corner case stuff, rather than "can you please just tell us how this card/interaction/timing issue is meant to work?"

    But, looking at the ASM spoilers, it does look like they've taken another BIG step in the right direction.

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    As long as they make progress with each set when it comes to wording I think that's good enough for me, I would love them to keep doing rulings but I really don't think it's their priority.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dwilhelmi View Post
    By this reasoning, why do non-targeting effects get a pass? Gobby doesn't target characters at all, but your point is that since it is an opponent's ability it must target that character, and since it can't it fizzles.
    "abilities can only target" is the wording on The Ring. Some direct damage says target X. Where X is character, player, action die, etc. All these abilities that target something, should target the character that is on the ring based on that text. That is the reasoning.

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