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Thread: swamp thing and ultron

  1. #1

    swamp thing and ultron

    Swamp thing
    Plant elemental
    Characters who block Swamp Thing are KO'd at the end of the Attack Step.

    Ultron
    Peacekeeper gone wrong
    When Ultron is blocked, capture all blocking characters (return them at end of turn).

    Global:*Pay to force an opposing character to block a character of your choice this turn.

    I attack with both, force blocker on swamp thing, and Ultron is blocked...
    At end of attack step = at end of turn?
    If not, and the blocking character is still captured at "the end of the attack step", can swamp things ability still KO the (out of play) captured die? I know you can't target captured dice, but the requirement (block) has already been met.

  2. #2
    At the end of the turn happens after the cleanup step ends and so the attack step has already concluded. Also, since captures remove the die from the game, they cannot be acted upon by outside effects. Accordingly, Swamp Thing will be unable to apply his knockouts as the dice that blocked him will be captured at the time that they would be knocked out.

    This is an anti-synergy and I think you'd be better suited by just using distraction.

  3. #3
    You beat me to it. ....

    Here's what I came up with:


    From the rule book:
    End of attack step
    Cleanup
    End of turn

    So I don't think this works. ..

    Also from rule book:
    "....The captured die no longer exists for game purposes...."
    and
    "...Unless otherwise noted, capturing ends at the end of the turn, or when the capturing die is knocked out..."


    So I found a loop hole....
    capturing ends at the end of the turn, OR when the capturing die is knocked out.

    So.... if Ultron gets knocked out during attack step, then swamp thing still KO's.

    Granted, it's not a very economical strategy, but it does satisfy the "Timmy" in me!


    p.s. distraction is a very ugly card. Not a fan, but we've had that conversation before!

  4. #4
    Distraction is by far one of the best cards in shutting down a lot of strategies. Not only the opponent but yourself too.

  5. #5
    It's not like I was building a team around it (for the record)
    Just something I noticed while examining my Jul cube reboot!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    Distraction is by far one of the best cards in shutting down a lot of strategies. Not only the opponent but yourself too.
    My sentiments exactly.

  7. #7
    Are you talking about distraction being used against you?

    My decks that run distraction always have something that syncs with it. Let it be Deadpool Jack, or a deck where I sit there and let you kill yourself. Its made to wall up.

  8. #8
    Although the turn end is after the end of the attack step, and capturing takes the die/dice out of play, I don't think that matters.

    I think, as you get to choose the order in which the two 'when blocked' effects resolve, and, as the die/dice blocking Swamp Thing is/are still in play when his ability resolves, if you choose to resolve that one first, then that/those die/dice become thus marked to be KO'd and nothing that subsequently happens to it/them can change that.

    The reason I think this is because of the ruling that says 'when damaged' effects resolve even after KO because the character with said effect was in play when the effect was triggered.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Although the turn end is after the end of the attack step, and capturing takes the die/dice out of play, I don't think that matters.

    I think, as you get to choose the order in which the two 'when blocked' effects resolve, and, as the die/dice blocking Swamp Thing is/are still in play when his ability resolves, if you choose to resolve that one first, then that/those die/dice become thus marked to be KO'd and nothing that subsequently happens to it/them can change that.

    The reason I think this is because of the ruling that says 'when damaged' effects resolve even after KO because the character with said effect was in play when the effect was triggered.
    your stance on timing is what led me to post this...

    ... and if you "Loki" my Swamp Thing with a ?

  10. #10
    @VastSpartan
    Yes. It's really really really good. Too good. That's why I'm "not a fan". Distraction falls in the PXG category for me...

  11. #11
    Except that there is not only a "window" for when this ability can trigger, but also a "window" for when it resolves

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Although the turn end is after the end of the attack step, and capturing takes the die/dice out of play, I don't think that matters.

    I think, as you get to choose the order in which the two 'when blocked' effects resolve, and, as the die/dice blocking Swamp Thing is/are still in play when his ability resolves, if you choose to resolve that one first, then that/those die/dice become thus marked to be KO'd and nothing that subsequently happens to it/them can change that.

    The reason I think this is because of the ruling that says 'when damaged' effects resolve even after KO because the character with said effect was in play when the effect was triggered.
    Except the ability to KO them has a very specific timing "the end of the attack step" and at that time, they are captured and unable to be effected since they don't even exist in game. This as always, is a case of do as much as you can and since you can't effect things that don't exist, when the time comes to knock out the effected dice, the moment passes and the effect fizzles.

    The reason that "when damaged" effect work is that once an ability triggers, it must be resolved. The fact that the character triggering is moved from the field to the prep area does not stop the ability that triggered from resolving. In this case, the ability has triggered, but the subjects of the ability no longer exist in game for the ability to resolve and so nothing can happen.

  13. #13
    I see the logic of that.

    I wish WizKids would clear this stuff up, though.

    Because what it comes down to is two logical, reasonable, opinions.

    And that's it.

    Perhaps you are right.

    Or perhaps I am.

    I don't think we have the information needed to make that call.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    "The PXG club" goes against my own personal feelings on how the game should be played.
    I love this game for what it is:

    A. Recruit characters that either a) go to war for you (character face) or b) help recruit others (energy face).
    B. Fight many small wars against the opposing leaders army.
    C. Defeat enemy. (Killing as many of his "soldiers" as I can along the way).

    Distraction and PXG don't function the way I want to play this game...
    That's all. Just personal preference.

  16. #16
    Ok that's you. But when it comes to Constructed and the possibility to win, Ill delve into the broken cards. Plus, Wasp being on my team just makes it more fun when I start sapping their life.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMagic View Post
    is this correct:

    Ultron only captures characters blocking him? If that is the case, then swamp thing will ko his blocker.

    actually upon re-reading, ultron's effect happens as a "when block" effect, and swamp things happens after globals, then assign damage, then swamp thing's ko ability if said blocker is still in the field.
    This is incorrect.

    Ultron captures any character that declared a block, even if it wasn't against Ultron. Because of this, all the characters blocking Swamp Thing are captured during the end of the attack step and so cannot be knocked out as they do not exist.

    Swamp Thing triggers at the same time that Ultron Triggers, allowing the active player to decide in which order they trigger. However since the characters that blocked Swamp thing are in capture statis when he would proc his KO, they are unaffected and return to the field for next turn.

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