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Thread: Mirror Force global vs. Jocasta - Patterned After Janet

  1. #1

    Mirror Force global vs. Jocasta - Patterned After Janet



    Jocasta - Patterned After Janet:
    The first time each turn Jocasta would be dealt damage, instead deal that damage to your opponent.

    Would the Mirror Force/Smash! global prevent damage dealt to the opponent from Jocasta that came from combat damage inflicted upon Jocasta by a blocker (assume this combat damage is the first time she is dealt damage in the turn)? What is your rationale?

    EDIT: Added the Smash! BAC, since both have the same global and the discussion drifted towards that card.
    Last edited by archivist; 09-09-2015 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Added the Smash! BAC, since both have the same global and the discussion drifted towards that card.

  2. #2
    Not as such but you could use it to prevent an attacker from doing damage when she blocks them thus removing her ability to reflect it back at you. Mirror Force appears to be a mirror (pun intended) of Smash only costing one more.

    thinking about it im not so sure, it depends I believe Jocasta's ability falls under the realm of 'ability damage' whether or not this is avoidable by that global is an interesting question for people more steeped in the rules than I.

  3. #3
    I'm assuming that when Jocasta attacks and you block, the global should work. It nullifies the damage to 0. Same could be said if you attack and she blocks, you pay the fist on yourself.

  4. #4
    @archivist I'm assuming that when Jocasta attacks and you block, the global should work. It nullifies the damage to 0. Same could be said if you attack and she blocks, you pay the fist on yourself.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    @archivist I'm assuming that when Jocasta attacks and you block, the global should work. It nullifies the damage to 0. Same could be said if you attack and she blocks, you pay the fist on yourself.
    I think he is asking about the other way around round which is an interesting conundrum as it works normally you block the character then use the global to prevent it causing damage whether this rolls over into damage caused by abilities is an interesting idea. As it reads yes as jocasta is the one causing the damage (via her ability) and the global prevents her from dealing damage as long as she is blocked, she would however take no damage from the block as that part of her ability would still function.

  6. #6
    I think you would receive the damage. You are blocking her causing damage by combat. You stop her damage but not from you.

  7. #7
    I think you would receive the damage. You are blocking her causing damage by combat. You stop her damage but not from yourself

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Dude View Post
    I think he is asking about the other way around round which is an interesting conundrum as it works normally you block the character then use the global to prevent it causing damage whether this rolls over into damage caused by abilities is an interesting idea. As it reads yes as jocasta is the one causing the damage (via her ability) and the global prevents her from dealing damage as long as she is blocked, she would however take no damage from the block as that part of her ability would still function.
    I think you would receive the damage. You are blocking her causing damage by combat. You stop her damage but not from yourself

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    I think you would receive the damage. You are blocking her causing damage by combat. You stop her damage but not from yourself
    Wizkids have already ruled that the damage caused by Jocasta by her ability is ability damage not a redirect ( http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=7649 ). Thus it is her causing the damage, and it is causing damage because thats how it is worded and the global states that the target blocked character deals no damage.

    I think its worth asking Wizkids but as im reading it I'd say it stops all damage from Jocasta in that circumstance.

  10. #10
    This would require a ruling. It's possible that the intent of the Smash global only extends to combat damage.

    Unless, has there been a ruling on an older card like Hawkman - World's Fiercest Attacker which is essentially the same case? Does the Smash global stop his ping? Right now I'd rule that Smash stops damage in both cases.

    Last edited by digitallimit; 09-08-2015 at 06:42 PM.

  11. #11
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    If timing were not an issue, I would agree, but at the time you may target Hawkman with Smash global, he has already done his ping damage.

  12. #12
    Oh balls, you're right. Didn't read Hawkman close enough, and I've never even played with him. Overcrush isn't ability damage either. Maybe this is the one and only case where this is relevant?

  13. #13
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    Thought experiment: if I attack with Nova (avx rare) and he is blocked, could my opponent use Smash global to nullify his ability? Methinks yes...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    Thought experiment: if I attack with Nova (avx rare) and he is blocked, could my opponent use Smash global to nullify his ability? Methinks yes...
    No again. I have the opportunity to use globals first...but he or she could prevent the ability from firing from combat damage.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    Thought experiment: if I attack with Nova (avx rare) and he is blocked, could my opponent use Smash global to nullify his ability? Methinks yes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jthomash2 View Post
    No again. I have the opportunity to use globals first...but he or she could prevent the ability from firing from combat damage.
    I lol'd, only because @Scorpion0x17 didn't have time to show up and correct you before you were able to make another post

  16. #16
    Hmmm...me thinks we are getting into dangerous territory here. What about our good old friend GG Hulk?



    You attack with Hulk, I block him with a sidekick, then use Smash global on Hulk. Hulk is a blocked character...so does that prevent his ability from going off becuase he can no longer do any damage? So in theroy, we could Smash to prevent hulk from triggering by combat damage in both active and inactive turns...right?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatman View Post
    Hmmm...me thinks we are getting into dangerous territory here. What about our good old friend GG Hulk?



    You attack with Hulk, I block him with a sidekick, then use Smash global on Hulk. Hulk is a blocked character...so does that prevent his ability from going off becuase he can no longer do any damage? So in theroy, we could Smash to prevent hulk from triggering by combat damage in both active and inactive turns...right?
    This seems correct to me. Smash prevents a character from doing damage. It doesn't say what type of damage.

    "Blocked" is simply a limitation on what types of characters (and by necessity when those characters) can be affected by the global.

    If the global read, as it probably should, and is assumed to read, we'd likely not even really question it much: "Pay . Target blocked character deals no damage until end of turn."

    Angel Avenging Angel and Black Manta David, if both targeted with this ability would not deal any damage with their abilities, for example.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    This seems correct to me. Smash prevents a character from doing damage. It doesn't say what type of damage.

    "Blocked" is simply a limitation on what types of characters (and by necessity when those characters) can be affected by the global.

    If the global read, as it probably should, and is assumed to read, we'd likely not even really question it much: "Pay . Target blocked character deals no damage until end of turn."

    Angel Avenging Angel and Black Manta David, if both targeted with this ability would not deal any damage with their abilities, for example.
    I'm with shadowmeld on this one, unless combat and/or effect damage is ruled to not be damage

  19. #19
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    Again, active player could ping hulk prior to your ability to target with smash. Also, you can't target him when he's not on the active side because he can't be a blocked die.
    Last edited by Jthomash2; 09-08-2015 at 10:41 PM.

  20. #20
    This is true, but you can target the character Hulk is blocking to make THEM do no damage. Hulk would still trigger if any damage hits the player, but not from taking damage from a smashed blocker.

  21. #21
    Going by card text as written, I agree.

    Smash Global stops all damage, of any nature, from being dealt by target blocked character.

    Whether that is the intended effect or not is a different matter, and I would not be surprised if it were to be ruled to affect combat damage only.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Going by card text as written, I agree.

    Smash Global stops all damage, of any nature, from being dealt by target blocked character.

    Whether that is the intended effect or not is a different matter, and I would not be surprised if it were to be ruled to affect combat damage only.
    I would believe it to be just combat damage.

  23. #23
    This could extend a little further as well. I'd suggest that "Any character ability on a BLOCKED character that deals ability damage to either characters or players, which is triggered AFTER the globals section of the attack step, can be mitigated using the Smash global".

    So...Retaliation could also be mitigated this way, if the character with Retaliation was also blocked this turn. For example...My opponent attacks with Cyborg, Zatana and Flash. I am able to block each of the attackers, but will only KO Zatana and Flash, I could use Smash global on Cyborg before damage resolves in order to prevent Retaliation from triggering.

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