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Thread: Controlling a Character that is controlling another Character?

  1. #1

    Controlling a Character that is controlling another Character?

    What happens if Loki: Illusionist controls an opposing character but then the opponent uses Millennium Rod: Scepter of Supremacy to control Loki? Does he now get control of Loki and get back the character that was taken from him?

  2. #2
    I suspect that you cannot take control of a die that has control of another die.

    If you look at the section on controlling and capturing in the rule book, these two abilities seem to mirror each other in some regards.

    Specifically, with capture the capturing die is placed on top of the captured die. And the captured die explicitly cannot be targeted.

    Whereas with control the controlled die is placed on top of the controlling die. Implying perhaps the the controlling die cannot be targeted?

  3. #3
    Wouldnt here the Rule apply<--- Wouldnt! See under my post!
    "The Captured die is out of the play for game purposes"
    so Loki is not in play anymore and cannot hold his die for this. So the before captured one goes back to where he was
    EDit: Sorry^^
    Last edited by Ressless; 09-22-2015 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    Wouldnt here the Rule apply
    "The Captured die is out of the play for game purposes"
    so Loki is not in play anymore and cannot hold his die for this. So the before captured one goes back to where he was
    That's capturing not controlling.

  5. #5
    Thing is, the "capture" mechanic isn't being invoked. The "control" mechanic is.

    The control mechanic has no such clause about the controlling die being out of play. It is implied/assumed, but not specifically stated.
    (Edit: Scorpion beat me to it)

    Given the context however, I'm going to have to agree with the general consensus. You cannot mess with the controlling die. Loki would therefore be immune to Millennium Rod in this instance.

    However, you could just Millennium Rod the die that Loki took control of. It is still a legal target.

  6. #6
    If you control a die that has performed a control, you simply get that die.

    If I use Loki to take control of Hulk, and then you use Millenium Rod to take Loki, Loki becomes yours, and I keep Hulk.

    All control effects in the game are instantaneous applications such as when wielded or global speed activations.

    Just because you no longer control the character that triggered the control effect with his Fielding, doesn't mean the effect is removed from the controlled target.

    TLDR Control effects end when the turn ends, the controlled die leaves play or as otherwise stated on the effect. Losing control of the character that initiated the control has no effect on the control situation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    If you control a die that has performed a control, you simply get that die.
    You don't "simply get that die" though. You are meant to place the controlled die on top of the controlling die. And the controlling die can't attack. This, to me, implies that something more is going on.

    But it is only a suspicion, and, if I had to rule on it, because the rules don't explicitly say otherwise, I would have to go with you can take control of a controlling die, it doesn't cancel the first control, but neither does it cancel the can't attack restriction.

  8. #8
    Oh weird, "controlling" a die has rules around it, rather than just moving it to the other side of the table? That seems unnecessary. (removed: "Dumb.")

  9. #9


    What happen if I control some opponent sidekicks or Allies with +1/+1 thanks to Green Goblin Goblin Lord. If i have in my field Phil Coulson that give +1A, when i attack with the cotrolled sidekicks or Allies, conserve +1/+1 (See controlling: the controlled die still continues to reference your opponentīs card), and can not benefit of my Phil Coulson ability?


    Are mine because are controlled by me, but conserve their bonus (of my opponent) and cant give them my bonus, but yes GLOBALS that buff them?

  10. #10
    If you control them, they are "your" Sidekicks for game purposes.

  11. #11
    but what happen with their original bonus and now my actual bonus (Phil Coulson)? They lose their original and opponentīs bonus?
    A: Only my actual bonus apply
    B: Only their original bonus apply (Goblin Lord)
    C: Both of them (Goblin Lord and Phil Coulson)

  12. #12
    While you control them, they are not "your opponents" Sidekicks and therefore would no longer be boosted by Goblin-Lord (as it is a Static bonus that would no longer meet the conditions). Any applied bonuses (from Globals, etc) would maintain.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jazrock_13 View Post
    What happens if Loki: Illusionist controls an opposing character but then the opponent uses Millennium Rod: Scepter of Supremacy to control Loki? Does he now get control of Loki and get back the character that was taken from him?
    This is a great question for the Wizkids rules forum.

    If you go by the rule book under Capturing, Controlling, and Copying(Civil War pg. 23)
    When you take control of a die, it becomes yours for game purposes.
    Move it into your field and place it on top of the die controlling it. Your
    controlling die cannot attack, but can send the controlled die to attack
    (controlling another mind takes a lot of effort). If the controlled die is
    of a character that you also have (e.g., you take control of a Iron Man:
    Pro-Reg die when you have an Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.
    card on your side of the table), the controlled die still continues to
    reference your opponent’s card. If the controlled die is sent to your
    Prep Area or Used Pile, it goes to your opponent’s Prep Area instead.
    Otherwise, when your control of the die ends (at the end of the turn or
    when your controlling character is KO’d), return the controlled die to
    your opponent, placing it in whatever area you took it from. Your die
    (that was controlling the other die) remains where it was.
    The placing the controlled die on top of the die controlling it, seems to be mostly as a reminder, to show who's controlling who, and that you can't attack with both the controlled and controller. Unlike with Capturing, there is no similar line stating
    The captured(controlling) die no longer exists for game purposes.
    ,but they did add in the little clause
    Otherwise, when your control of the die ends (at the end of the turn or when your controlling character is KO'd), return the controlled die to your opponent, placing it in whatever area you took it from.
    This would give one the idea that the controlling die is still targetable and on the field, but they only mentioned KOing, thus the reason you should have Wizkids verify specifically what this means.

    IMHO, active player with Loki: Illusionist would take control of an opponent's character when fielded (lets say a Thor die). Active player takes opponent Thor die and places it on to their Loki die they just fielded. The opponent with Millennium Rod would use the action die to target Loki and gain control of Loki. Loki's still is in control of the Thor die, thus this die would follow along on top of Loki. Opponent takes Loki die with Thor on top and place it in their field.
    Side NOTE: Another reason to ask Wizkids for clarification is they only mention attacking, but I will also assume for now that blocking is the same, as in Loki can't do the blocking but the die he's controlling.
    Your opponent would be allowed to block with the Thor being controlled by the Loki, being controlled by the rod's effect.
    For the next part I'll assume Thor is not KO'd. I'll also put what I assume is the owner of the effect in ()'s. Please note that I believe this is another example of what should be asked of Wizkids Rules Team. At end of turn, a few effects will trigger, return Thor die back to original owner(active player), return Loki to original owner(inactive player), Loki's 2nd ability(inactive player - this one I'm not 100%. I think would be based on who controls at the time of trigger). Active players effects resolve first. Thor will return to the inactive players field(removed from Loki's die). Next, inactive player's effect resolve. In order of inactive player's choice Loki die is return to active player's field. Loki's effect KO'ing the Thor die and deal damage to the active player equal to Thor's Attack.
    Loki's 2nd ability would trigger during the active player's choice and deal damage to the inactive player if the effect is considered to be by owner of Loki. I assume it's the inactive players trigger though because of this line:
    when you take control of a die, it becomes yours for game purposes.

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