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Thread: Vicious Struggle

  1. #1

    Vicious Struggle

    Vicious Struggle: Basic Action Card
    Until your next turn, deal your opponent 1 damage for each damage you take that doesn't come from Vicious Struggle.

    If I use multiple copies of Vicious Struggle on my turn does this effect stack? Would my opponent take double the amount of damage they deal me?

  2. #2
    I believe it stacks, but exactly what they mean by "each damage you take" is unclear at best.

  3. #3
    My reading is that:

    1) Multiple Vicious Struggle dice do stack; and
    2) "Each damage you take" refers to damage suffered by the player fielding the Vicious Struggle dice.

    So, essentially, it's a way to stop your opponent when you see them gearing up for a big swing. It would be even more of a deterrent if you fielded multiple dice at the same time.

  4. #4
    I'm assuming they mean that any time you take any damage from a source that is not Vicious Struggle, deal 1 damage to the opposing player.

    If something pings you for 1, deal 1 to the opponent. If a character smacks you for 5, deal 1 to the opponent.

    Read literally, however, it's pound for pound. You do 10 damage to me regardless of source(s), I do 10 back to you. Not sure which way to go on this one.

  5. #5
    Something to note, Viscious Struggle does no damage if the damage you take kills you first.

    Viscious Struggle discourages your opponent from attacking, unless they have lethal. Check out next weeks TPA for more details.

  6. #6
    I was thinking of a team using Vicious Struggle where you force your opponent to attack you before they have lethal. You let the attack go through. You'll both take damage, but then their field would be open for your turn and you can hopefully finish them off.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Camalott View Post
    I'm assuming they mean that any time you take any damage from a source that is not Vicious Struggle, deal 1 damage to the opposing player.

    If something pings you for 1, deal 1 to the opponent. If a character smacks you for 5, deal 1 to the opponent.

    Read literally, however, it's pound for pound. You do 10 damage to me regardless of source(s), I do 10 back to you. Not sure which way to go on this one.
    Why are you assuming? It is how it's read. It doesn't say "your opponent takes one damage for each time you would take damage until your next turn..."

  9. #9
    Honestly, I'm not sure why I would have assumed that.

    The way I type is in fragments of thought. I may have started a statement with an assumption, went off to type something else, and then returned to that assumption by adding additional information that was not an assumption.

    Or, at the time of its writing, I had legitimate rationale to believe that it was a valid possibility depending on interpretation, but later was given information to the contrary - as often happens.

    If nothing else, an assumption gives me the ability to be wrong (even grossly so) and still not be responsible for my statement.

  10. #10
    It's ambiguous.

    What does "each damage" mean?

    Each individual point of life lost?

    Or each instance of some amount of life loss?

    Either way you read it is an assumption.

    Don't kid yourself, or feel shamed in to thinking, it's not.

    There is nothing in the card text from which we can determine it's meaning, and nothing in the rules, or rulings, either.

    So assumptions are all we have.

  11. #11
    A damage == 1 damage right?

    If not, Would Kyle Rayner deal double damage if a Green lantern were active?
    When fielded, deal damage to target character equal to this character's level. Deal an extra damage if a green lantern is active (yours or your opponent's).
    So if a(or "an" extra) damage is 1, then there is no precedent for damage to be anything other than a metric measured in units of 1 and never in lumps of "X".

    As such, " each damage you take" must mean each single unit of damage you take, not each lump of units you take.

  12. #12
    Well if you look into dictionarys, each = one by one

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    A damage == 1 damage right?
    That is an assumption.

    Quite a reasonable one, but an assumption none-the-less.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    Well if you look into dictionarys, each = one by one
    If you have several groups, then it is valid to say "each group".

    The question comes down to whether "damage" is collective, singular, or both.

    I am sure I could find evidence in the card texts, rules, and/or rulings for all three.

  15. #15
    Wonder Girl is one evidence,
    "The First damage" <- singular

    "* the first 2 damage"

  16. #16
    Good example Ressless.

    With WGirl as precedence, we could not really argue that "the first damage" can be a value more than 1.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dchrys View Post
    Sorry to resurrect an old thread but...
    Why exactly is it that lethal damage does not activate Vicious Struggle?
    The game ends immediately once one player has zero life. So, I use Vicious Struggle and my opponent nails me for enough to kill me, that's the end of the game (before my VC has a chance to damage them back).

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