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Thread: Article: SLC Regional Aftermath

  1. #1

  2. #2
    @IndyMon - good work on the win

  3. #3
    Given the Lantern Ring ruling at the tournament (more on that in a moment) the zombie Magneto would provide a way to cancel that ability on cheap characters - or so it would appear at this point
    I hope there is an mistake because ZMagneto would not cancel the ring.
    But that besides


    Congrats Indymon, how did you win? Did you waited until you clear board rush over with Hulk for finisher?
    Last edited by Ressless; 09-26-2015 at 07:35 AM.

  4. #4
    Congrats @IndyMon, and thank you fro the Live Blog of the event.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post

    Congrats Indymon, how did you win? Did you waited until you clear board rush over with Hulk for finisher?

    Ressless - apparently it didn't come up, but the ruling indicated that the ring granted the characters that ability as if it added text to their card. So, if each character is given that ability, then ZMags should be able to take it away if their cost is less than/equal to 3.

  6. #6
    Really never saw such a Rule that Action cards grant extra text except Overcrush. Can you please send me an PM with the Link or here for an example?

  7. #7
    The ruling at the event was: "The damage done is considered character ability damage. Each individual attacking die triggers the ability."

    So the source of the damage is a character ability, granted by the lantern.

    This will likely impact Colossus if it stands.

    However - this is not a WES Forum ruling, this was a ruling for the event. We don't know how it'll go long term.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    You could use it because the global doesn't target a character, it prevents damage.

  10. #10
    I could very well see ZombieMag not negating Lantern Ring for cheap characters due to it being a character ability, but not that character's ability. It's a character ability belonging to Lantern Ring, if you will. Like if you attended an event that disallowed you from using anything that you owned, but allowed you to use anything else that you brought (luckily you brought your friend's stuff, too).

    I'm really just throwing stuff at the wall but previous rulings seem to do the same.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    I could very well see ZombieMag not negating Lantern Ring for cheap characters due to it being a character ability, but not that character's ability. It's a character ability belonging to Lantern Ring, if you will. Like if you attended an event that disallowed you from using anything that you owned, but allowed you to use anything else that you brought (luckily you brought your friend's stuff, too).

    I'm really just throwing stuff at the wall but previous rulings seem to do the same.
    Yeah they basically said that zMags wipes the cards' texts like Prismatic Spray, but this isn't part of the cards' texts.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Ressless - apparently it didn't come up, but the ruling indicated that the ring granted the characters that ability as if it added text to their card. So, if each character is given that ability, then ZMags should be able to take it away if their cost is less than/equal to 3.
    That would be absolutely ridiculous, as nowhere does it mention "Continuous" as being something that is text added to every valid character. If that was the case, it would have been an easy sentence in the rulebook. That's ridiculous that Zombie Magneto could shut it down on characters under 4 cost; I'm not saying the ring isn't powerful, but in that case, it completely ruins the vale of all rings/lanterns, especially the lesser ones, that just give a +1/+1 to Green/Blue or something. That would completely ruin a weenie Blue/Green Lantern team, for instance, which should be a completely viable thing.

    I think what happened is that the judges took a look and realized that 2 cost characters were doing 5+ damage each (or 4 in the case a Mera was in play) every turn, and realized they hadn't fully tested and made an immediate, off the cuff ruling, hopefully before they release errata (they've done it for HeroClix, most memorably for the most recent Worlds, where there was a piece that was like a Magic Unglued card printed in a normal set, which won the finals game, with the head of HeroClix or whatever and the National champion doing commentary, and the Wizkids official couldn't even go over the different powers on the card of the piece eventually errata'd, because the game ended in like, 7 and a half minutes, of rounds that normally go to time (45 or so minutes) and the winner is based off of points of pieces KO'd.

    It was actually hilarious to watch, but you feel terribly for the opponent. Basically, this dude has a d20 with 1/4 or 1/5 sides with differently worded powers that effectively stop your opponent from doing anything but like, the equivalent of drawing only 4 sidekick dice, rolling them, specifically only sidekick dice, and being able to purchase something at most. Anyway, he had a bunch of other cheap pieces (it's done out of 300 points, with bigger pieces going even higher than 300 points for non tournament games, or smaller characters at 20-40 points) that let you re-roll a dice roll for free, more than enough so that he was statistically given like a 125%+ chance of rolling a shut-down power, and then having another smaller point costed (because it didn't need defense or anything) attacker go in and do small damage each turn, with the opponent literally just passing after doing nothing for 5 seconds, rinse repeat, which happened so quickly even with such small amounts of damage from each attack of the winner, that the judge was still trying to explain the concept of World Finals a piece having a d20, and didn't even realize it was finished because he wasn't paying attention, and had no idea the piece was capable of that. The next day, the piece was on the HeroClix website's "watch-list," which is pieces that are either being evaluated, or have had errata released, literally changing the card text of a piece. If you didn't ever think to check online and just played with friends, and weren't involved in the competitive scene, you'd have no idea about it.

    Anyway, with a ruling like that which is so obviously wrong and not how "Continuously" was meant to apply, the better thing, rather than ruining the application of "Continuous," would be to just errata the text of the card that was so offensive so as to spur such an obviously totally against the current reading ruling. My hope would be for an errata, as someone who has played on both side of an Iceman/rare ring team, I can say, it's cheaper and just as little fun as playing against Tsarina/Hellblazer back in the day. It's literally like, ok, I have a ring out and a 2 cost bolt character... I'll iceman, and attack for 8 unavoidable (if just one is fielded). Of course, Captain America does stop it, and he's a character I've run anyway - along with the new meta basically requiring action hate of some kind - I don't really think any errata should be released, and they should come out and say that they made an incorrect ruling, or that they've changed their minds, whatever, and that *how it should be, not introduce a whole new element into the rules that's crazy and unnecessary* should be re-implemented, and the meta will balance itself, as metas tend to do.

    I think this was a reactionary measure to seeing a powerful combo at one event, before the rock to its scissors, etc..., comes along. It's just going to have to start being normal to have a rare Bleez or something of that sort on one's team.

    But they really need to undo that ruling - it's crazy and unfair to every other ring and lantern and any future card with "Continuous."

  13. #13
    This ruling honestly puts a damper on an otherwise awesome write up and event from what I've read and seen.

    I just really don't want it to set a precedent of making bad rulings to cover up poorly conceived cards. I don't even think this is that case, this is just the first time the combo was used in a bigger, more public setting. Once action hate becomes standard, something else will come up, and it will just be another of scores of strategies and growing that this game has.

    They really need to undo that ruling, like, ASAP, in writing on the WIzkids Dice masters website.

  14. #14
    I am sorry for beeing the one who started this but could we discuss this at the Rules forum or in general like "tournament decisions"?

    Because this blog entry is for some different purpose.

    Its Time that Indymon reveals to me how he lead his team to victory!!!

  15. #15
    Well slapster, we couldn't have done any more to indicate that it wasn't official and that we don't know how it will shake out in the long run. Let's get back on topic.

  16. #16

    Misspelled

    What was the top 8 like. Was it 7 ring teams and Indymon? The ring is powerful for sure, but it has now been proven beatable. I would say that poly teams have all the tools to wrangle SHIELD Agents and thier bolt ilk. The card is powerful, but that is what needed to happen to shake up the meta. Do we want to see the same teams for 2 years until they rotate out AvX and start dice masters golden age?
    What is the real issue here? Did the ring team push some favorite teams to tier 2? Because the meta is ripe with answer.
    Rare Dr. Doom, Venom, Umber Hulk, and Green Goliath can keep weenies in check. Messing with the teams ramp via Jinzo, Wasp, or spray can slow the team down. Thier are plenty of cards that reroll or force action die to the used pile. This is just a shift in the meta. Growth is good. If there is some unstated fear, please say it. These ring teams do have weaknesses. It's only the first week. The problem can be solved.
    Last edited by sewnwings; 09-27-2015 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Misspelling

  17. #17
    Top 4 had one ring. Top eight had at least one other ring and two other non rings. I'm guessing that the eighth team had a ring. So let's say 3 rings on top 8 teams.

    It was interesting to watch the hype online throughout the day. There were a ton of rings there, and some did quite well, but by the end of Swiss, the top table (the players with the best records scoot up to the lower numbered seats throughout Swiss rounds, resulting in a single table hosting the players with the best records) hosted few ring teams.

    FWIW, in my opinion: the ring rulings were required by the card text, make sense, and render the card very good but far from broken.

  18. #18
    I'm not the seasoned pro that our champion Indy Mon is (double thumbs up yet again on the much-deserved victory, friend!), but not only was I there in SLC but I had the great honor of being Indy Mon's first victim - I mean opponent ;-) - in Top 8. What an awesome day!

    My team was far from the up-to-the-minute meta, as I faced off against Indy's GG with one of my own. It was probably apparent that I was as "green" as the big hero himself when I was shocked at the board-clearing power of those combatants against each other. (Thanks again for the patience with me, Indy Mon!) My combo of the day which didn't fire in those last 2 games of my fateful final round but did pretty well throughout the qualifying matches was Stealth Ops with Wolverine FWX. Other than that single Basic Action from WoL and a failed attempt to use Iron Fist (I was a rube and didn't realize he wasn't legal yet), I was using what I think are some old stand-bys as far as meta goes. And yes, if you're doing the math, I played the day with 7 cards, 16 dice - sigh.

    As far as other teams, Indy Mon's blog had some cool shots of teams he faced (including mine). There was definitely a TON of buzz about batteries and rings, but I don't think I faced many. The one that did come into play against me (the R Ring) was in my only qualifying round loss. However, that didn't actually end up being what got me; Falcon Recon, a couple of SK boosters, plus my bad rolls/decisions did. From what I saw, there was some intriguing variation in the top 8, despite usual suspects like Tsarina, Hellblazer and my frenemy GG. I hope we'll see a full list, because there's always so much to learn!

    My overall impression of the day, which you may take with a grain of salt since I'm so new to major tournament play, was that I didn't play two teams that were alike. It was always different, interesting, and super, super fun! While team builds may not have been identical, I did find a unifying theme - the Dice Masters community is AWESOME. What wonderful people! I never faced off with Craig (he went out in the first round of the Top 8 with me...wish I knew his handle here), but my gosh what a friendly, supportive, positive guy! Hope to sit across from you some other time, Craig! I did face Miles (again, don't know his TRP name), and even as I surprised myself with a victory, Miles demonstrated what a kind and encouraging human he is. I would be pleased to play Miles again! Met a fun and energetic fellow Coloradoan (shout out, Sean!), and a new player who's been at this only a couple of months (keep at it, Tyler!) and so many more. While I didn't get to talk to the other gals there, I was thrilled to see more women rolling dice. So although Tsarina eluded me again (will I never get one of the strongest female characters in the game?!) and I narrowly missed the invitation to Nationals, I am so, so very glad I went. Thanks to WizKids and all of the players for an amazing first major tournament ever!

  19. #19
    I was very excited about this tournament, but I have to admit that my overall impressions of it were rather poor at the end.

    I talked to the Tournament Official the day before the event and showed him my deck to confirm all of my combos were working correctly. With the poor wording on many cards, and so many new cards out I wanted to make sure that I had understood how all the cards interacted together. He approved my combos and I left very excited for the event the next day.

    I talked to a number of my friends that were new to the game and convinced them it would be a good time. We have all been playing less then a month, so we arrived all full of hope to learn new techniques and have a fun experience losing.

    On my first match my opponent questioned my deck combos and so I called the Tournament Official over who again confirmed I was using the cards correctly. I won the match, but then the Tournament Official called me upstairs with my opponent and said that he called WizKids HQ and they overturned how my deck was working and I could no longer use it as I intended anymore. That put quite a damper on the rest of my matches as I was essentially playing a broken deck for the rest of the tournament, and was not allowed to change out any of my cards.

    My newbie friends played against several of the more experienced players who were all National and World attendees who were pretty rude to them during the tournament. Beating them soundly is one thing, but being rude while winning is another. Both of my friends ended up leaving after 3 swiss rounds because they did not like the people they were playing against even though they had both won a few games.

    I am looking forward to my next chance to play in a tournament with the best of the best, but I hope next time the Tournament Official has a better grasp on the rules of the cards so that I can actually play a deck successfully. I know its going to be rough getting my friends to show up again. We had all driven 6 hours to play in this tournament. We were not really planning on going to SLCC, we had come almost exclusively for this event.

  20. #20
    @whisperni - What was the team you played and what was ruled? Sorry to hear you had a sour experience. @kaywillow - Congrats on making top 8, especially with a seven man team! Glad CO was represented. @Indy Mon - Thanks again for the tumbler feed of the event and well done taking home the championship!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Knight View Post
    @whisperni - What was the team you played and what was ruled? Sorry to hear you had a sour experience. @kaywillow - Congrats on making top 8, especially with a seven man team! Glad CO was represented. @Indy Mon - Thanks again for the tumbler feed of the event and well done taking home the championship!
    I believe the combo being referred to was trying to redirect the KO that was part of the cost of BEWDs global by trying to KO your own wonder girl and then redirecting it to your opponents character.

    The combo doesn't work. But a judge ruled that it did. Immediately following the game, the judge called WK HQ and determined that the ruling was incorrect.

    It was an unfortunate judging situation--can't argue with that--but fortunately it only impacted one game and was immediately rectified.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Mon View Post
    I believe the combo being referred to was trying to redirect the KO that was part of the cost of BEWDs global by trying to KO your own wonder girl and then redirecting it to your opponents character.

    The combo doesn't work. But a judge ruled that it did. Immediately following the game, the judge called WK HQ and determined that the ruling was incorrect.

    It was an unfortunate judging situation--can't argue with that--but fortunately it only impacted one game and was immediately rectified.
    Yea, the only reason it was a little sour is that I had come in the day before to specifically get a ruling on it. Once it was approved I built my entire deck around it. Then after the first game it was ruled the other direction. So I essentially was screwed.

  23. #23
    Sounds like WK have some clarifications to make public and official. But that's what you get when you put new mechanics out to an ingenious fan base. Very unfortunate about the misjudging, it's a pity WK was not consulted on the initial ruling.

    There are going to be incidents like this, but hopefully if WK stays on top of the rulings it will be the exception.

    Congrats to all who participated in this event and especially Indy.

  24. #24

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