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Thread: Kitty Pryde and Warth unblock able combo?

  1. #1

    Kitty Pryde and Warth unblock able combo?

    Not sure if asked anywhere else but is Kitty Pryde Shadowcat a 'when fielded' ability?

    Her text reads {Kitty Pryde cannot be blocked on the turn she is fielded}

    If so does the rare Warth become unblock able when fielded if a Kitty Pryde is active? Of does it just re-activate Kitty Pryde?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    The question is moot until we know how Warth actually works.

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  5. #5
    Yes, it is a "when fielded" ability. There was a ruling on Shadowcat, buried in another ruling (see underlined):

    "It's the same character than a dice - for global effects (27Feb2015)
    Q: If I use Global Ability of Takedown to make a character villain, is it only one die that gains the villain affiliation or is it only one character? There are many effects that say attackers, characters, dice, and I think it´s important that you clarify if it´s all the same, because several of us believe that if a global said Character affects to all dice of that character, e.g. Kitty Pryde – Shadowcat’s Global Ability, several of us believe that you must pay only one life for a successful attack of all dice of Shadowcat.
    A: Takedown only makes 1 die into a Villain (as does Iron Man and other similar abilities).
    Shadowcat's ability only refers to the die fielded that turn.
    Shadowcat's Global Ability only refers to a single character die."

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=4283

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    Shadowcat's ability only refers to the die fielded that turn.
    (I actually think it is a when fielded ability, but...)

    I'm not sure how you read that as confirmation of it being a when fielded ability.

  7. #7


    Warth - Hope Burns Bright
    When fielded, you may use the "when fielded" effect of one of your active characters.

    The ruling is clarifying that if you have a Kitty Pryde (KP) die active and field a second KP, that second KP die is the one that cannot be blocked that turn. The effect does not encompass all KP dice - so you couldn't make both KP dice unblockable in that turn.

    From this clarification, I am stating that in order for KP to be unblockable this turn, that KP die must have been fielded, hence a "when fielded" ability.

    As this applies to Warth, which I did not initially comment on, I would consider that if you field both KP and Warth in the same turn, Warth can assume the effect of KP's unblockable ability (assume KP is fielded first, so she is active once Warth is fielded). Key here is KP's effect is not explicitly a "when fielded" ability, you must field KP in the same turn as you field Warth in order for him to apply her effect for that turn.

  8. #8
    Kitty is "self - referential" which means this die.

    It's not "when fielded" ability.

    But hey, I could be wrong.

  9. #9
    Warth does not get another character's when fielded ability-he allows you to repeat another character's ability as if they had just entered the field.

    I realize there is debate on this, but I feel the wording makes sense enough to come to that conclusion

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  11. #11
    For the record I played this team against a team using unblockable Namor and unblockable Angel. It was pretty great. Most of the damage would have been un-mera-able.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacBV View Post
    Warth does not get another character's when fielded ability-he allows you to repeat another character's ability as if they had just entered the field.

    I realize there is debate on this, but I feel the wording makes sense enough to come to that conclusion
    I agree with this and I hope we get a WK ruling to this effect. Would still be powerful, but would present the least amount of complications...

  13. #13
    This is a Magic-based interpretation. When fielded is a triggered ability that happens when a trigger occurs. Kitty Pride's ability is a static ability with a limited duration. I don't think it works.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by cbone3 View Post
    This is a Magic-based interpretation. When fielded is a triggered ability that happens when a trigger occurs. Kitty Pride's ability is a static ability with a limited duration. I don't think it works.
    Kitty Pryde's ability does happen only once (when triggered): when fielded. In fact, you could say that 'when fielded' is in fact a static ability with a limited duration (only after the a fielding). Cyclical logic. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

  15. #15
    I think he had a weird way of saying it, but I agree with cbone3 on this one.

    It has the exact same effect as a 'When fielded' trigger, but it's a static ability. It doesn't have a limited duration. It's constantly updating itself throughout the game. When that specific situation happens, a Kitty Pride die is fielded in that exact turn, then the ability is already there. Every other Kitty Pride die has the exact same static effect, they just can't use it because they weren't fielded that turn.

    Another way to think of it is as a triggered ability that isn't affected by things that could potentially stop 'When fielded' triggers. I can't say I know enough characters and spells to say this exists, but it wouldn't affect her if they did. Same with anything else that affects 'When fielded' triggers. Which I'll talk about later.

    I honestly can't think of a better way to explain it. The wording on the card is there for a reason. What reason that is I honestly can't tell you. WK seems to make horrible wording choices so things end up getting discussed until nobody can come to a conclusion.



    As to OP's question, I agree with people saying that the Warth can't utilize it to make the KP unblockable because of the rule clarification below.

    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    The ruling is clarifying that if you have a Kitty Pryde (KP) die active and field a second KP, that second KP die is the one that cannot be blocked that turn. The effect does not encompass all KP dice - so you couldn't make both KP dice unblockable in that turn.
    I also disagree with anybody saying that Warth can use it to make himself unblockable. Considering that she does NOT say 'When fielded, Kitty Pride cannot be blocked' I can only assume that Warth is not allowed to use her ability. If that sentence was used, or at least something similar, we wouldn't even have to have a discussion about this.



    If you think my interpretation is wrong, I'd love to hear why you think so.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Frubzors View Post
    I also disagree with anybody saying that Warth can use it to make himself unblockable. Considering that she does NOT say 'When fielded, Kitty Pride cannot be blocked' I can only assume that Warth is not allowed to use her ability. If that sentence was used, or at least something similar, we wouldn't even have to have a discussion about this.
    This is a position that draws a comparison to what the card text literally states and the intent of the card's ability.

    For consideration, what, other than the wording, is different in the application of these two abilities:

    (1) Character X cannot be blocked on the turn it is fielded.

    (2) When fielded, character X cannot be blocked this turn.

    I would submit that these are both "when fielded" abilities.


    While Warth explicitly states "use a "when fielded" ability" and one can argue if a card does not say "when fielded" Warth cannot use that effect, I do not agree that is the intent. Effects such as KP's are "when fielded" abilities.

    We still do not have an official ruling on how to apply Warth. The point of my statements above is just because a card's text does not explicitly say "when fielded" does not mean it is not a when fielded ability.

    Given the logic Frubzors proposes, KP's effect would be applicable if she were placed into the field via the Polymorph BAC, since her card text does not say "when fielded". (I think not.)



    @cbone3

    As to static vs. applied effects concerning Kitty Pryde:
    For reference: a static effect is typically a "while active" ability that is continually applied to the effect (or stat) referenced and it remains as long as the character is on the field. An applied effect is applied once at a specific time and usually lasts until the end of the turn.

    KP's ability (i.e. cannot be blocked) is triggered on the turn that applicable KP die is fielded (per the WK ruling). It is not a static ability. If you already have a KP die fielded from a previous turn and field a second KP die, the first KP die is unaffected and once the turn in which the 2nd KP die was fielded ends, the effect is no longer applicable.

    Your comparison is more in line with how Starfire - Outlaw works.

    "While Starfire is active, whenever another [Teen Titan] is fielded, deal damage to target opponent equal to that die's fielding cost."

    This is a static effect triggered when another Teen Titan is fielded.

  17. #17
    The keyword definition (on Wk's new keyword page) says this about When fielded:
    When Fielded: An effect that takes place when you pay a character’s fielding cost to move it to the Field Zone, once for each copy of that die you field.
    A when fielded ability, is one that triggers when a character is fielded. Seems to apply to Kitty.

  18. #18
    I wonder if we'll get errata on her that ties into the keyword templating.

  19. #19
    No, we are more likely to she her phased our of legal play. We could perhaps see a reprint of her, but unlikely that we will see an errata.

  20. #20

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    No, we are more likely to she her phased our of legal play. We could perhaps see a reprint of her, but unlikely that we will see an errata.
    They have yet to phase out any cards, but they have errata'd several.

    So, based on the evidence we have she is more likely to be errata'd than phased out.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    They have yet to phase out any cards, but they have errata'd several.

    So, based on the evidence we have she is more likely to be errata'd than phased out.
    I read it as meaning that over time earlier sets will be phased out of tournament play, like MTG, and that would probably happen before they made any official action on her. Based on how long it takes them to address rules questions, I tend to agree.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    I read it as meaning that over time earlier sets will be phased out of tournament play, like MTG, and that would probably happen before they made any official action on her. Based on how long it takes them to address rules questions, I tend to agree.
    I know what he meant.

  24. #24
    The earlier sets had different wordings but have been agreed upon to be the same as the more standard ruling. Thrown Car, Blade Knight, and one of the Gaias, all have overcrush but do not specifically say overcrush. With this in mind and based on how Kitty is worded, the simplest conclusion is that it is indeed a "when Fielded" ability. In the case of Warth he is still being debated and requires an official ruling; but after reading the wiki on the blue lanterns, I would have to conclude that he allows the other character to reuse their ability and that he does not use it. Granted, I see far more potential with his card if he is the one gaining or performing the ability (I really hope for this to be the final answer), but thematically, it should be the original character.

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