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Thread: Wonder girl + BL Aquaman and BL Wonder Woman

  1. #1

    Wonder girl + BL Aquaman and BL Wonder Woman

    Hi all. I have a couple of doubts about how these cards interact with each other, cause the way I'm seeing it seems kinda broken.

    Lets say I have on the field a Wonder Girl: Cassie Sandsmark, BL Aquaman and BL Wonder Woman, and a Beast Boy die in my used pile (or any other Teen Titan for that matter). Lets say I choose Wonder Girl as the target for Wonder Woman effect, can I change the target to one of my opponents character's die even if its not on the field (like sending one from the prep to the used)? How about Aquaman's effect? If I chose Beast Boy, can I sent to the card any character die my opponent has even if its not on the used?

    As Wonder Girl says "While Wonder Girl is active, when a teen titan character die is targeted, you may choose an opponent's character die as the new target for that effect." As it mentions character die and not just character, I would think her effect protects your teen titans die not on the field and can choose any opposing die as well. Then there's this little thing on the rulebook: "When an effect is redirected, the target of the effect changes from its original target to the new one chosen as described in the game text, even if that target was not a legal one for the original effect. The source of the effect remains unchanged from the original."

    As it says, the new target doesn't need to be a legal one for the original effect, so what prevents me from choosing a die in another zone and then applying the effect? If it indeed works that way, I think my teen titans team will be getting some darker guests soon.

  2. #2
    A die that is not in the Reserve Pool or the Field cannot be "targeted" unless the card text explicitly says so.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    First, the relevant card texts:


    When fielded, KO all Aquaman Dice. At the beginning of each turn, the active player must move a non-(Black Lantern Corps) character die from the Used Pile back to its card.
    This isn't considered "targeting", because you can't target something that isn't in the Field (or, very rarely, the Reserve Pool). Wonder Girl would have no effect on this. You couldn't choose her as the target (and then re-direct elsewhere) because you're either choosing her die from the Used Pile (and she isn't active for her ability to work), or she's in the Field and the card says to select a die from Used. Even if you put Ring of Magnetism on her, it wouldn't make a difference.


    When fielded, KO all Wonder Woman Dice. At the beginning of each player’s turn, that player chooses a fielded non-(Black Lantern Corps) character and moves it to the Used Pile. If they cannot, they lose 2 life.
    This would be considered targeting, and Wonder Girl would make a difference. But the character you re-direct it to would have to be in the Field to be able to select it. The only thing that Wonder Girl would give you a benefit for would be that you could choose her, and then select a Black Lantern (even though that was originally not valid). The Ring of Magnetism on Wonder Girl would also be beneficial here.

  5. #5
    Unfortunately the Jocasta ruling means that just because it sounds like a redirect it does not mean that it is redirect from a game rules point of view.

    So, the section of rules you quoted, @Kamuisito , may not apply.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    First, the relevant card texts:




    This isn't considered "targeting", because you can't target something that isn't in the Field (or, very rarely, the Reserve Pool). Wonder Girl would have no effect on this. You couldn't choose her as the target (and then re-direct elsewhere) because you're either choosing her die from the Used Pile (and she isn't active for her ability to work), or she's in the Field and the card says to select a die from Used. Even if you put Ring of Magnetism on her, it wouldn't make a difference.
    I didn't mean to select the active Wonder girl as the initial target for Aquaman's effect, but any other teen titan die (like Beast Boy for example) in your used pile and then change it to an opponent's die. But if the effect is not considered a target, that makes it irrelevant. Can you direct me to the ruling that says that those effect do not target? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.

    Also, this means that the rare Indigo-1 doesnt target the die that is moved to the field, correct?

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  7. #7
    http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=4121

    They ruled that Monster Reborn doesn't target:


    I would say for the same reason that Indigo-1 is also not considered "targeting".

  8. #8

  9. #9
    I don't believe that PXG or Rally are considered to target the Sidekick dice.

  10. #10
    I got that from the Dice Masters Rules Update 9/22/2014 found here. There's a section that talks about targeting dice in the used pile and mentions both Rally and PXG. From that document— "She can move another 2
    Sidekicks from her Used Pile to her Prep Area. She can’t move the die she spent for the Global Ability. It
    isn’t available as a target in her Used Pile when she activates the Global Ability, it’s in transition."


    And there's this: "Below are some examples of what happens in some game play scenarios that are different given the new rules. Many of the examples address Sidekicks in particular, but the new way the Used Pile works applies to ALL dice."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuisito View Post
    I got that from the Dice Masters Rules Update 9/22/2014 found here. There's a section that talks about targeting dice in the used pile and mentions both Rally and PXG. From that document— "She can move another 2
    Sidekicks from her Used Pile to her Prep Area. She can’t move the die she spent for the Global Ability. It
    isn’t available as a target in her Used Pile when she activates the Global Ability, it’s in transition."


    And there's this: "Below are some examples of what happens in some game play scenarios that are different given the new rules. Many of the examples address Sidekicks in particular, but the new way the Used Pile works applies to ALL dice."
    I see your point. My own personal interpretation is that Wizkids is using "target" in that document in a very different sense than the use of "target" in-game. Otherwise I could pay for PXG, then pay another for Storm's Global to change the target to whatever I wanted in my Prep Area.

    I believe in that document they were explicitly trying to explain the "transition zone/out of play" and how cards (like PXG and Rally) couldn't choose Sidekicks "in transit" since they weren't actually in the Used Pile (where PXG and Rally look). Similarly, any card that looks to the Used Pile wouldn't consider dice that are "out of play". It seems logical to us now, but at the time that document came out the "Transit Zone" didn't exist and all spent dice went directly to Used.

  12. #12

  13. #13
    For reference: I re-looked at some relevant texts, and Storm couldn't re-direct PXG (Storm can only re-direct action dice, and it also specifies target character die, which SK dice wouldn't be in the Used Pile).

    That being said, I still maintain everything else I said earlier :-)

  14. #14
    I believe this may be relevant to this discussion:

    FUNDAMENTAL RULES
    Card text always supersedes basic rule text. Unless otherwise stated, game effects can only target character dice that are in the field. The Attack Zone is considered part of the field.
    (War of Light rule book page 20)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I believe this may be relevant to this discussion:


    (War of Light rule book page 20)
    That would definitely prevent changing the target to a character die in the prep area, but Aquaman's effect already affect a die in the used pile. So if we can get a definite answer as to whether Aquaman's effect targets the die in the used pile or not, we'll know if it can be changed. I'm hoping it does target and that we can change it with wonder girl (and that wondergirl follows the redirect rules) to send an opposing die on the field back to the card.

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