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Thread: Counting Lanterns - Need help

  1. #1

    Counting Lanterns - Need help

    Okay, I thought I had this figured out, but now I am not so sure. I need some help.

    WOL has a lot of cards that require you to count lanterns.

    Some say just count lanterns:




    Some say to count lantern characters:


    So does Kyle count active lantern dice, or UNIQUE active lanterns?

    If I have Kyle and two Kilowogs active do my Green Lantern dice cost 1 or 2 less?

    If I have 3 Mogos, does Kyle get his +5/+5 bonus?

    Based on how Jade mentions characters specifically, I read it as the symbol alone counted lantern dice regardless of uniqueness. Can anyone help me out? I looked over the rule book but couldn't find much.

    I also looked at this old ruling about Namor, (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=1636) and it suggests that since the word "character" isn't used in Kyle's text, then uniqueness wouldn't apply.

    Unless the symbol itself implies character, but then would you be able to use the power ring with the Green Lanten ability to power your Blue Lanterns, since it's not a character?

    Sorry if this is unclear, it's late and I should even try to post when I am this sleepy. Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Whenever the wording is "active" then the effect counts unique characters and not dice.

  3. #3
    First you are mixing symbols. Jade and Kyle Artist cards have the Green Lantern Corps symbol on them. So you would be looking for characters with that affiliation. So you would be looking for Unique Characters for both of these cards.

    Kyle Rayner Hopeful Will has the Lantern Symbol on it which means, any of the eight(8) Lantern Corps characters. So if you have a 2 Cost Guy Gardner, now he costs 1 (the Fist required to purchase him), if you had another Red Lantern in the field. Which means this, the 5 Fist cost The Flash, now would cost 4F if you only had Kyle on the Board. IF you had say Kyle and The Flash on the board and went to buy a second Flash, that The Flash would cost 2 less, as you have two active characters.

  4. #4
    Does Kyle hopeful will count opposing lanterns as well? I could see him being fun in a limited rainbow team then

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wargfn View Post
    First you are mixing symbols. Jade and Kyle Artist cards have the Green Lantern Corps symbol on them. So you would be looking for characters with that affiliation. So you would be looking for Unique Characters for both of these cards.

    Kyle Rayner Hopeful Will has the Lantern Symbol on it which means, any of the eight(8) Lantern Corps characters. So if you have a 2 Cost Guy Gardner, now he costs 1 (the Fist required to purchase him), if you had another Red Lantern in the field. Which means this, the 5 Fist cost The Flash, now would cost 4F if you only had Kyle on the Board. IF you had say Kyle and The Flash on the board and went to buy a second Flash, that The Flash would cost 2 less, as you have two active characters.
    I recognize the two different symbols, I should have been more clear in the post, I just wanted to give them as examples of cards that only use the symbol but don't say character. So why does Jade's text state character, but not Kyle's? Is this just inconsistent wording?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    So why does Jade's text state character, but not Kyle's? Is this just inconsistent wording?
    simply yes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wargfn View Post
    simply yes.
    Jade's says attacking character, actions can't attack. For "active" lanterns, I would say unique cards with the lantern symbol (including actions).

  9. #9
    "[symbol]" (without "character" following) includes actions.

    "[symbol] character" does not.

    "active" indicates unique dice only.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Unfortunately WoL is first set in which they have consistently used "active" to denote uniqueness (it was used prior to this, but not consistently).

    In earlier sets one had to ask "what is this card asking me to do?", and the rules of thumb were:

    1. If it asks you to count how many, then it is unique dice.

    2. If it asks you to count how few, then it is total dice.

    So, Deathstroke falls under rule of thumb number 1, and should be considered to read:

    "When Deathstroke is fielded, deal 1 damage to opposing player for each active Villain you control."

  12. #12
    Note that the Jade referenced in the OP actually follows this rule of thumb too.

  13. #13
    http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...p?f=10&t=8033&

    So didn't this ruling mean that weapons master counts individual dice? And actually, Jade would have also (if it wasn't for the reminder text, which on this card is not actually a reminder, but an exemption)

  14. #14
    Counting Villains is tricky, because we have contradicting rulings:

    http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=8033
    Says to count each die.

    http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=4073
    Says to count unique Villains.

    http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...hp?f=10&t=1971
    And the FAQ (re: Teamwork, Mystique) says to count only unique Villains.

  15. #15
    That's why I go by the rules of thumb, unless a card is explicitly ruled otherwise.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    So Kyle's cards would not count Lantern rings, since those aren't characters? And neither would the Blue Lanterns?
    No.

    Continuous actions are considered active while they are in the field. As such, they still count toward lantern counts unless the count specifies "character."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    No.

    Continuous actions are considered active while they are in the field. As such, they still count toward lantern counts unless the count specifies "character."


    Both of those would count Lantern Ring/Battery. You would not be able to get a discount on Lantern Ring/Battery, since that part specifies characters.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    So for this card:



    The Green Lantern ring would allow him to block or attack, correct? Because it doesn't specify a character, just the symbol.
    That is correct. Both the common and rare Lantern Rings allow Saint Walker to attack and block normally while they are in the field ("active").

  20. #20
    Wow Reding all this makes my head hurt. Really hoping for more precise and consistent wordings soon, being a judge at my shops is getting really tough

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Unfortunately WoL is first set in which they have consistently used "active" to denote uniqueness (it was used prior to this, but not consistently).

    In earlier sets one had to ask "what is this card asking me to do?", and the rules of thumb were:

    1. If it asks you to count how many, then it is unique dice.

    2. If it asks you to count how few, then it is total dice.

    So, Deathstroke falls under rule of thumb number 1, and should be considered to read:

    "When Deathstroke is fielded, deal 1 damage to opposing player for each active Villain you control."
    I really appreciate the rules of thumb, they seem easy enough to follow, but I ran into this from the rules forum when I was trying to research the issue:



    weboflife wrote:
    Lantern Power Ring - Energy projection

    Deal 1 damage to your opponent for each opposing Villain in play.

    ** Also deal an equal amount of damage to each Villain.

    Global: Pay [1 Mask]. Target opposing character gains the Villain affiliation until end of turn.

    If my oponent have 3 sidekicks, Can i pay 3 mask ( to make villains the 3 sidekicks) and deal 3 damage to him?

    Lantern Power Ring: Energy Projection deals 1 damage to target opponent for each opposing Villain character die in the Field Zone. It checks the dice for affiliation (whether they got it from their character card or some other ability or effect).

    -The Dice Masters Rules Team
    Here is the link for the ruling: http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...d4c354eac8042c

    This seems to be counting how many, as opposed to how few, so does this violate the rule of thumb?

    Sorry, I missed the post from PK2317. These inconsistencies make it really difficult to play correctly. I guess I will just go with the rules of thumb when I can, and hope I remember and am aware of the rulings for exceptions to it. Blargh.
    Last edited by Joepancreas; 09-29-2015 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Missed an earlier post concerning some of my questions.

  22. #22

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    I had a question sort of related to this topic: do Fatality: Yrra Cynril, Miri Riam: Beacon in the Dark, or Miri Riam: Unextinguished Devotion count themselves for the effects of their "When fielded"? There's different wording on their cards:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, in all three instances.

  24. #24
    After this ruling the Lantern Rings and the non-SR Lantern Batteries having such affiliations is a fantastic detail within this set. It makes for incredible possibilites in draft and makes a lot of the shown cards above more reason to be played and many more!

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