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Thread: Wolverine Wanted

  1. #1

    Wolverine Wanted

    I did some searching of the TRP forums and WK forums, and couldn't find the answer to this so thought I would ask...

    :uxmop6:

    At what point sequencially would Wolverine declare who he is attacking? I would assume this has to come after blockers are assigned, becuase Wolverine has to go unblocked for this to work. I would also suggest that it has to come after globals are used in the attack step...becuase the ability specifically says "instead of attacking your opponent", and it wouldn't be determined until after gloabls are finished that Wolverine could in fact attack your opponent. So I would suggest that after globals before damage resolves is when Wolvie would declare his target.

    Assuming this is the case...that would also mean I could wait until the globals section of the attack step to use the Ironman global and turn a character that didn't block into a villian, so that Wolvie can then attack said character.

    Does this make sense or am I way off base?
    Last edited by Meatman; 09-28-2015 at 11:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatman View Post
    I did some searching of the TRP forums and WK forums, and couldn't find the answer to this so thought I would ask...



    At what point sequencially would Wolverine declare who he is attacking? I would assume this has to come after blockers are assigned, becuase Wolverine has to go unblocked for this to work. I would also suggest that it has to come after globals are used in the attack step...becuase the ability specifically says "instead of attacking your opponent", and it wouldn't be determined until after gloabls are finished that Wolverine could in fact attack your opponent. So I would suggest that after globals before damage resolves is when Wolvie would declare his target.

    Assuming this is the case...that would also mean I could wait until the globals section of the attack step to use the Ironman global and turn a character that didn't block into a villian, so that Wolvie can then attack said character.

    Does this make sense or am I way off base?
    Post what card you're talking about

  3. #3
    I did...see...it is in your quote of my post

  4. #4
    That's funny. The original post didn't parse the colon code, but the quoted post did :-P

    Card text:
    Wolverine may attack a character with the Villain affiliation in the field instead of your opponent (he may be blocked normally).
    It says nothing about being unblocked, it explicitly says he can be blocked normally. I'd say it's a "When Attacks" ability, after you assign Wolverine as one of your attackers you say he's going to attack your own Jocasta instead. Then your opponent can block or not block as they'd like.

    You'd have to Global-make a Villain during the Main Step.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    That's funny. The original post didn't parse the colon code, but the quoted post did :-P

    Card text:


    It says nothing about being unblocked, it explicitly says he can be blocked normally. I'd say it's a "When Attacks" ability, after you assign Wolverine as one of your attackers you say he's going to attack your own Jocasta instead. Then your opponent can block or not block as they'd like.

    You'd have to Global-make a Villain during the Main Step.
    Ummm...was it actually determined to be legal that you can attack your own characters? Even if you could attack your own characters, why couldn't your opponent block that attack before damage resolves?

    Maybe I'm reading the card wrong all together, but I thought the ability was designed as a way to attack a die that is just sitting in you opponent's field and not engaging in battle...perhaps a die that has a nice "while active" effect...or a capture effect.

    Let's assume for a second it is not legal to attack your own characters...or...that you don't have any desire to do that and you want to try to attack your opponent's Hellblazer that is sitting comfortably in the field never attacking or blocking. I assume Wolvie would need to go unblocked in order to get at a die in the opponents field...right? If he were blocked by a different character, that would effectively nulify his ability I beleive.

    So when would I declare Constantine as Wolvie's target?

  6. #6
    This card is so weird for me and I wish there were a ruling on the forums for it.

    So, I attack with my Wolverine and my Beast. My opponent has a Jocasta and Ultron in play. I choose to have my Wolverine attack Ultron. Wolverine can be blocked normally, so my opponent blocks Wolvie with Jocasta. Can Ultron block Beast? Or does the blocked normally clause mean that Jocasta can block Wolvie and it effectively means that Wolvie is being blocked by Ultron and Jocasta together? It just seems against the spirit of the card that it essentially just causes some slight blocker annoyance to your opponent.

  7. #7
    Yeah...Agreed. This is why I believe it is not a "When Attacks" ability...because it says "instead of your opponent". It has to be determined first that Wolverine would actually be able to attack you opponent (by going unblocked), and only then can you choose to instead attack a villian in the field.

  8. #8
    @Meatman - fine, ignore my Jocasta ploy :P

    I think you are correct in the card's intent. If you made Constantine a Villain during the Main Step, you would declare Wolverine as an attacker (with anyone else), and then during the "resolve When Attacks abilities" phase you would say you are targeting Constantine. If your opponent didn't block, Wolvy would take out Constantine. If Wolvy were blocked by a Sidekick, nothing would happen to Constantine (unless Wolverine had Overcrush, then I would assume it would "spill over" to Wolverine's target - though you could argue Overcrush damage always goes to opponent).
    @alleyviper - Just because Ultron was declared a target for Wolverine doesn't mean that he couldn't block normally. Ultron could block Beast as normal. If Jocasta blocks Wolverine it comes down to just Wolvy vs. Jocasta, Ultron doesn't enter into their battle (unless maybe Overcrush). Ultron vs. Beast, Wolvy. vs. Jocasta.

    If Jocasta didn't block Wolverine, and Ultron blocked Beast, then Ultron would deal all his attack value to just Beast, but both Beast and Wolverine would deal their Attack value to Ultron.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatman View Post
    Yeah...Agreed. This is why I believe it is not a "When Attacks" ability...because it says "instead of your opponent". It has to be determined first that Wolverine would actually be able to attack you opponent (by going unblocked), and only then can you choose to instead attack a villian in the field.
    When you "declare attackers", you are always (by default) attacking your opponent.

  10. #10
    @pk2317 So basically, you are saying, the ability should be interpreted as follows:

    When assigned to attack, you may choose a target character with the Villan Affiliation to block Wolverine. Your opponent may either:
    1) Do nothing and allow the block
    2) Choose to block an additional character with with Wolverine's target. Attack value must be entirely devoted to the additionally blocked character
    3) Nulify Wolverine's selected target by blocking Wolverine with a different die


    If I've got that right, it still seems a little overly complex to me. I can see that interpretation, but I still read the card as follows:

    When resolving damage, if Wolvie would damage your opponent, you may instead choose to deal that damage to a target character with the Villan Affiliation

  11. #11
    You're not forcing a blocker. If wolverine is unblocked, his entire attack goes to the target villain instead of the opponent. If he's blocked, battle goes normally between him and blocker. That's all.

    Overcrush would complicate things a little, but we'll ignore that for now.

  12. #12
    Overcrush seems like a simple enough matter, too. If blocked, excess damage goes to the character. What wrinkle am I missing?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    You're not forcing a blocker. If wolverine is unblocked, his entire attack goes to the target villain instead of the opponent. If he's blocked, battle goes normally between him and blocker. That's all.

    Overcrush would complicate things a little, but we'll ignore that for now.
    Yes...now we are in agreement. The ability triggers at the point Wolvie is unblocked, not when assigned to attack.

    Overcrush is interesting...I guess by the same logic, Wolvie would KO his assigned blocker, and then choose to attack a villian with the overcrush damage instead of the opponent.

    Really...I suppose none of this matters too much. The fact that we have had a card like this in the game for a while now, and no one has bothered to really flush out how the ability works...this should tell us something. Maybe, no matter how it works, it just isn't that good enough to be competitive anyway...

  14. #14
    @Meatman - the ability triggers when Wolverine is assigned to attack - that is when you choose his target.

    Situation A: "I assign Wolverine and this Sidekick to attack." - by default you are declaring an attack by those characters to your opponent.
    Situation B: "I assign Wolverine and this Sidekick to attack. Wolverine will be attacking Ultron." - This is when you use Wolverine's special ability to not attack your opponent as normal, but the target of his attack is someone else.

    Situation A: Both are unblocked. Both Wolverine and SK deal their full attack value to the opponent (their attack target) and then go to Used.
    Situation B: Both are unblocked. Wolverine deals his full attack value to Ultron and then goes to Used. SK deals full attack value to opponent and goes to Used.

    Situation B2: Both are blocked by Sidekicks. Wolverine deals full attack value to Sidekick, is not KO'd, and returns to the field. SKs KO each other.

    @cbone3 - re: Overcrush.

    If you go by a strict reading of Overcrush, the "leftover" attack goes to the opponent. Now under ordinary circumstances, the "target" of an attacking character is always the opponent. So it would depend on if you read Overcrush to be "leftover attack goes to target of attack", in which case it goes to the opponent 99% of the time and the 1% of the time you are attacking with Wolverine, it would instead go to the Villainous target of his attack.

  15. #15
    I don't see that as much of an issue. The character replaces the player to be attacked. I can't see where overcrush damage would go anywhere but the player.

  16. #16
    Thematically (and game mechanically), I'm sending my characters to attack you (the player). One of your characters gets in my way (blocks) and I can't get to you. If I have a special power, I can climb over them and partially succeed in my attack on you (Overcrush).

    With Wolverine, all this is the same, except instead of attacking the player I'm directly attacking a character. So thematically, any Overcrush damage would be dealt to that character that I'm attacking.

    However a strict reading of the rules just says that
    When attacking, if this character KOs all of its blockers (or they are removed for other reasons), it deals any remaining damage to your opponent.
    So mechanically, I say Wolverine is attacking Ultron with 8A and Overcrush. You block Wolverine with a Sidekick. According to the game mechanics, the 7A goes directly to the opponent, even though thematically it "should" go towards Ultron.

  17. #17
    Let's say you're right. It goes to assign damage to the player and sees that the character has been substituted for the player in this attack for the Wolverine and assigns the damage to the assigned substitute. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cbone3 View Post
    Let's say you're right. It goes to assign damage to the player and sees that the character has been substituted for the player in this attack for the Wolverine and assigns the damage to the assigned substitute. Much ado about nothing, IMO.
    That's how I would play it, yes.

    Someone who wanted to be a stickler about the rules could say that Overcrush always goes to the opponent, no substitutes allowed. I highly doubt it's a big enough issue to warrant a Rules Forums post (unlike real, actual hot-button questions like the one about Captain Cold).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Someone who wanted to be a stickler about the rules could say that Overcrush always goes to the opponent, no substitutes allowed.
    I would point out that you always attack a player- except when you don't. #beatingthisdeadhorse

  20. #20

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