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Thread: Article: Individuals Sharing a Common Goal

  1. #1

    Article: Individuals Sharing a Common Goal


  2. #2
    So the League is an open play session?
    How are points awarded for League?
    How and when are OP cards distributed to League?

    What is the prize structure for tournaments?
    What is the special prize for end of season tournament?
    How long is a season?
    Does the League run on the same "season"?

    Cost of entry into League and/or tournaments?

  3. #3
    In addition to SarkhanMad's questions:
    Do you report your games in the WizKidsEventSystem?
    Have you had any issues with people not wanting to explore different builds because they care about leaderboard points?

  4. #4
    Great post! Would love to hear more details

    We have had great success with exploring "funky" formats in our store as well. We run two events every Saturday morning so we have 8-10 events each month. Only one of those is unlimited constructed. As to Trubie's question, I don't know about Kirsten's experience, but I have people who care about leaderboard points but the different formats have not mattered to them one bit. A win is a win and you just need to try to make and pilot the best team you can for the format you are playing.

    I honestly believe that this idea is THE way to get dice masters flourishing at a store. Always doing drafts price out a lot of players. Always doing unlimited turns off players and gets boring to many if not most players--even the very competitive. A league with varying formats keeps things fresh and fun. Keep up the great work!

  5. #5
    Kuddos to you kaywillow - glad to read about your experiences and best of luck in the future.

    Our league (ComicHeroU) is going into its 3rd season and we are incorporating some of the points you made in your article to accommodate competitive and causal play.

    @SarkhanMad , here's our info:

    So the League is an open play session?
    No, we have a constructed format based on the theme of the season. Last season, it was achievement-based.

    How are points awarded for League?
    Two ways: Win/Loss and varying points for achievements

    How and when are OP cards distributed to League?
    We distributed a basic OP package after every event (1 card for the person with the most wins, 1 card for the runner-up and a fellowship). Everyone got to pick from a deck of previous participation OP cards.

    What is the prize structure for tournaments?
    We awarded 2 gravity feeds to the champion, based on Achievement Points (their choice from AvX to AoU - the most recent release at that time), 1 GF for the runner-up and 1 GF to the player with the most wins who did not already receive a tournament grand prize.

    What is the special prize for end of season tournament?
    none

    How long is a season?
    Season 2 was 5 events played over 7 weeks (played each Saturday afternoon with a break due to 4th of July holiday and one down-day because of attendance).

    Does the League run on the same "season"?
    We split ours up by calendar (a Winter League, a Summer League and a Fall League). Each season has a different theme. Season 1 was constructed team builds, with an "All-Star" team for the final event; Season 2 was Achievement Point based. Season 3 will be something different (working the details now).

    Cost of entry into League and/or tournaments?
    We had a one-time cost of $10/player to enter the league. This helped our store with the costs of the grand prizes, but we have a gracious store owner who greatly supports the game.

    @Flexei (Hello there Trubie!!)
    Do you report your games in the WizKidsEventSystem?
    Yes

    Have you had any issues with people not wanting to explore different builds because they care about leaderboard points?
    No. We are more focused on who has the best W/L record for each event within our group. Our group's culture is more social and experimental. We enjoy having new players - teaching the game is important to us - and for the few of us who are sanctioned Tournament players, we do a lot of play-testing, knowledge sharing for our competitive builds outside of the League structure, but sometimes you just want to do some wacky builds without the pressure of having to win a tournament or worrying about ranking status. Many times, we uncover a nifty combo from these League events.

    Of note: we have a core (regular attendees) of 10 players, with 4-8 semi-regular or new players in our group. Also of note: to give you a sense of our social aspect, almost every night after our weekly gaming session, most of the group goes out to dinner together. Out of these experiences, what started as a casual gaming group has turned into lasting friendships. THAT is my greatest take-away from this game.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    @grungebob - what details are you interested in?

    One question: why has the play at your store declined? Depending on that situation, what is being discussed in this thread may not help and other remedies (than a League scene) would need to be explored.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    Have you had any issues with people not wanting to explore different builds because they care about leaderboard points?

    No. We are more focused on who has the best W/L record for each event within our group. Our group's culture is more social and experimental. We enjoy having new players - teaching the game is important to us - and for the few of us who are sanctioned Tournament players, we do a lot of play-testing, knowledge sharing for our competitive builds outside of the League structure, but sometimes you just want to do some wacky builds without the pressure of having to win a tournament or worrying about ranking status. Many times, we uncover a nifty combo from these League events.
    How can you answer no to this question when you're using W/L record?

    Only way you could, is because the players are making that possible, not the structure of your league.

  9. #9
    In an attempt to prevent hijacking this thread, I would still like to hear more from @kaywillow

  10. #10
    @archivist i really like the idea with the most Wins and the second place and also a pick from last packages. I will suggest that to my shop owner if i get a league rolling at our store.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    How can you answer no to this question when you're using W/L record?

    Only way you could, is because the players are making that possible, not the structure of your league.

    I said: "the best W/L record for each event within our group". Each event = within the league structure.

    A league can still be ran without concerning oneself with Leaderboard Points.


    Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent with these questions?

  12. #12
    So, W/L record earns OP cards.
    achievement points earn GF's.

    achievement points ~ leader board points

  13. #13
    Ah, I see the confusion.

    Achievement Points in the League construct I described are only relevant to the League standings - they are not connected to the WK Leaderboard, even though they are the same words.

    Some example achievements from our Summer League:
    A single character die does 15 or more damage during the Attack Step. Score 1.0 (achievement) point for each occurrence.
    Win a match with 20 life remaining, score 1.0 (achievement) point for each occurrence
    Roll 15 or more dice during your Roll and Reroll Step, score 0.5 (achievement) points for each occurrence

    These points were tallied at the end of each event, then totaled at the end of the League. Points for W/L were also included in this total for overall score in determining the winner. Since we entered this event, and the results from all of the matches, into the WK system, points also were recorded on the WK Leaderboard for the W/L only.

    The person with the best W/L record also received a GF. Note: the player with the most wins was not the player with the most overall points. Sometimes, a killer team construct that maximizes obtaining achievement points was not a good team for winning a match. It was the player's preference on how they wanted to approach each event.

    Most wins, 2nd most wins and fellowship (usually to the newest player or the person with the most losses) for that specific event received OP cards.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    @grungebob - what details are you interested in?

    One question: why has the play at your store declined? Depending on that situation, what is being discussed in this thread may not help and other remedies (than a League scene) would need to be explored.
    A couple things happen... The staff member that was the judge moved and just another player did move away at the beginning of the decline (about month ago), but I believe it was boredom of a rotation between 3 formats (rainbow, constructed-draft, and unlimited constructed), a lack of actually trying to do anything to build upon our group (getting new players involved over have knowledge of the events) and a Wiz Kids Event System site that is very poorly designed for anything Dice Masters, pretty much a HeroClix system.

    So I'm in Las Vegas, our store was the only store with a weekly event since AvX since week 2 of release with only 1 other store having a random event (month to 2 months). As a previous HeroClix player, I could play every night somewhere. With Dice Masters, it's becoming almost non-existent, but never was given a push to advance. So maybe a season event could bring excitement to people that have gotten bored of the 3 events and help bring people back on the regular. The other is to make events known and I personally looking into demoing or judging small events for other stores that sale Dice Masters, just so people know about the game.

  15. #15
    Great discussion here guys. I am excited to see where the community continues to grow when it comes to leagues, Pro Dice Circuit and other ways to compete!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    So the League is an open play session?
    How are points awarded for League?
    How and when are OP cards distributed to League?

    What is the prize structure for tournaments?
    What is the special prize for end of season tournament?
    How long is a season?
    Does the League run on the same "season"?

    Cost of entry into League and/or tournaments?
    Sorry for the delay. I just saw your response and it was a really hectic day at the store with MTG BFK releasing. Not as much fun for me as Dice Masters, but made for a long and busy day. I was planning on doing a more detailed blog this weekend with some of this info, but let me get you some answers.

    Points: Each person gets 1 point for showing up, 1 point for each opponent they play during league, 1 extra point for teaching a new player or playing a youth (since they play slower and we don't want experience players avoiding newbies or young people), 1 point for playing that season's "theme team", 2 points for every friend they refer who joins league, and 2 points for every tournament entry. We track points on their League Card.

    OP Cards: There are 32 points on the card, and each 8 points corresponds to an energy type. The first 8 is the bolt. Achieve the bolt, and players get 2 packs. Get to 16 (fist), and they get a participation promo. At 24 (mask), they get another participation promo and a free tournament entry ($3), and then at 32 (shield), they receive a premium promo, and can enter the drawing for the special prize at the final Leaugue Tournament that season. We have a binder, and I've put a set of the participation level OP cards on one page for the fist level. The 2nd page has some of the same OPs as well as some different participation promos. The 3rd and final page has the top level OP cards.

    Tournaments: Prize support is solely packs based on entry.

    End of Season Prize Drawing: This is going to vary. This first season it's the Thor The Mighty OP card from AvX, which I had to get on eBay. Our store wasn't playing then and can no longer get the first two AvX kits we missed. Next season is going to be Villainous Vixens themed, and the big prize is the full art Harley Quinn (also eBay). We may go to SR cards, mats or other cool items in the future, but I have Spider-Man The Amazing for the season after Harley.

    Seasons: We last 6 weeks for each season. I am a little concerned right now about filling the cards for some folks, but we're monitoring that. We have two more weeks, and I've had one person complete so far. It is doable, but we'll see if we need adjusting (like allowing anyone with 24 spaces completed to get into the drawing). The season is the League, so the tournaments are really not necessarily on the season schedule except that one tournament every 6 weeks has the drawing for League members who filled their cards. One key thing to not discourage late entry into the League is that the cards are good for TWO seasons. If they join in week five, that's okay. They can't do the drawing, but they can keep the card. With the next season, we just double-stamp, giving them points on both cards. They will get the awards still except they can only get one entry for the big prize in the second season.

    Cost: League entry is $5/season. Tournaments are $3.

    Hope this helps, and promise to do another blog (hopefully still this weekend) with our outline and the inside of our card. Will probably include thoughts on the response we've gotten.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flexei View Post
    In addition to SarkhanMad's questions:
    Do you report your games in the WizKidsEventSystem?
    Have you had any issues with people not wanting to explore different builds because they care about leaderboard points?
    I do report the tournaments in WES for The Nerd Store. While I do register the participants for the League/Open Play in WES, I can't finalize it without W/L. I've mentioned it to Justin and he shared with the appropriate team at WK. They haven't come back with any solution on that so far, but it isn't urgent for us either. Our folks have not been very concerned about leaderboard points. They are much more concerned about earning those League points. :-)

    In terms of exploring different builds, they were actually LESS experimental before League and were really resistant to anything but super meta, competitive builds in unlimited format to earn the premium OP. With weekly tournaments, we actually alternate between fun formats and unlimited. They can still hone new competitive teams every other week, but with the theme each season and the format variants (more on that when I reply to IndyMon), there's actually a lot MORE creativity with our gang now.

  18. #18
    Thanks, IndyMon! And thanks, too, for letting me be a lurker to see your alternative formats. I will definitely be "borrowing" plenty from your group's creativity. I completely agree that both the variation of themes and the budget-friendly blend of different kinds/formats of constructed tournaments with occasional drafts keep things fresh and maximizes fun. I hadn't found a really solid thread in the forum to help with format variant ideas, but maybe I missed it. Otherwise, maybe we should get one going. I know your creativity has inspired me, and I love that we're growing support and participation for this game!
    Last edited by kaywillow; 10-03-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by grungebob View Post
    A couple things happen... The staff member that was the judge moved and just another player did move away at the beginning of the decline (about month ago), but I believe it was boredom of a rotation between 3 formats (rainbow, constructed-draft, and unlimited constructed), a lack of actually trying to do anything to build upon our group (getting new players involved over have knowledge of the events) and a Wiz Kids Event System site that is very poorly designed for anything Dice Masters, pretty much a HeroClix system.

    So I'm in Las Vegas, our store was the only store with a weekly event since AvX since week 2 of release with only 1 other store having a random event (month to 2 months). As a previous HeroClix player, I could play every night somewhere. With Dice Masters, it's becoming almost non-existent, but never was given a push to advance. So maybe a season event could bring excitement to people that have gotten bored of the 3 events and help bring people back on the regular. The other is to make events known and I personally looking into demoing or judging small events for other stores that sale Dice Masters, just so people know about the game.
    I'm sorry about your declining participation. We had the same thing starting to happen, and that was the impetus for League. We have done some other things, too, that may help you like hosting "Learn-to-Play Dice Masters" sessions in our store during other activities. I'll be doing that again on Halloween with our Halloween ComicFest. For learn-to-play, I build kits of 8 SK dice, one BAC, and 4 characters with 2 dice each. If the new players really like it, I offer to let them take the kits home. The League/Open Play time is also great to encourage people to come in. We promote it pretty heavily to customers coming to the counter who purchase games and/or comics, since Dice Masters is great for both of those customer bases. Since I started getting into Dice Masters, I've gradually converted two of my colleagues to regular players as well, which definitely helps. I never really gave up but was never pushy. It has taken time even with the co-workers, but the same thing has happened with our regular customers. After months of occasionally noting what an addict I am, an every-Wednesday comic book customer finally said, "So about this Dice Masters...will my wife like it?" He bought a starter and 10 packs Monday, came back Wednesday and said "She loved it - we played til 1am" and he's promising to come to League Tuesday. I never imagined he'd be one of my converts. Just told him often how much I love this game!

    I've played at other stores, too, but mostly I just learn and have fun when I'm there. Our other local-ish (we're willing to drive to play more!) stores have a scene, too, so we're lucky that way. I avoid pilfering other players from fellow shops, of course. However, if your other local stores don't have a scene already, you may be able to offer Learn-to-Plays or just sit and play in their game space if the stores are friendly with each other. It can be sticky if they aren't. Just playing in a high visibility location can have an amazing impact on interest though. For the "random event" place, random definitely didn't work well for us. The weekly consistency has made a HUGE difference in participation.

    The nicest thing, though, about League time is that it's not intimidating to newer players. We promote it as "a perfect time to come learn", and emphasize that we're very casual, not competitive, can help with team builds, etc. Since it's 2 hours of dedicated time for simply playing, people seem more likely to try it once. Then we laugh a lot and have so much fun, it's easy to convert people to League members. I've managed to teach three couples in the last two weeks, and the gals are at least as into it as their husbands/boyfriends. I'm convinced they would never have come along if we only offered tournaments.

    Wish you all the best, grungebob! Keep us posted.

  20. #20
    So since the entry is here again.

    I got really motivated by this to start again to create a community around this game. I already have set a Concept for the league. 2 Leagues you could say.
    Still in planning phase and i wish i could do a achievement point system like yours but for that we have to few players.

    So i go first just with different Event formats and a standard league and watch how well it goes for 2 Months. If there is success and growth on players i think then a additional price pool would make sense.

    But thanks again to all for this nice ideas!

  21. #21
    UPDATE:

    The list of achievements we used in our Summer League event has been posted on the Dice Anon website. Open the Episode 16 Podcast article and click on the link: Summer League Doc.

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