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Thread: Assemble! - Action

  1. #1

    Assemble! - Action

    This action card states "Search your bag for a character die and field it at Level 1, for free. Teamwork - repeat this effect for another affiliated character"

    how do you "search"? actual look in the bag and grab what you want? or keep pulling dice until a character is found? And how does Teamwork on these cards work? In case do you put all the dice back in and keep pulling until you find an affiliated character to the first one?

  2. #2
    The Keywords page on the DiceMasters.com site says that Teamwork gives a bonus if you have 2 characters of the same affiliation in the field. So if you have 2 different Avengers fielded when you play the die, you look in your bag and find whatever die you want (2 dice if Teamwork processed).

    It's not clear if you refill for an empty bag, my thought would be no.

  3. #3
    You would not refill with an empty bag, my suggestion is if you're set on using a search card make sure you have a quick way to prep dice so you don't have turns where you have an empty bag or no legal targets in your bag. Something like resurrection or villainous pact would do just fine.

  4. #4
    I think you do refill an empty bag when searching.

    But you do not 'search' by drawing the dice one at a time (so would not refill the bag if the die you are searching for is not in there).

    Basically, I think you do as follows;

    1. Look in bag.
    2. If bag is empty refill from Used.
    3. Choose one die from bag and draw it.

    (And in the case of Assemble, repeat this process if you have two or more dice of the same affiliation in the field (and I do not think that either die drawn needs to match affiliation with either those fielded or the other drawn))

  5. #5
    So if I have 1 character in field (avenger affiliation) and I play Assemble, drawing and fielding another avenger, does teamwork proc?
    I don't think so. ..

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    So if I have 1 character in field (avenger affiliation) and I play Assemble, drawing and fielding another avenger, does teamwork proc?
    I don't think so. ..
    No.

    I believe the two or more affiliated characters need to be in the field when the action is used.

    But, to be honest, I find the wording of this action and the teamwork ability itself somewhat confusing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I think you do refill an empty bag when searching.

    But you do not 'search' by drawing the dice one at a time (so would not refill the bag if the die you are searching for is not in there).

    Basically, I think you do as follows;

    1. Look in bag.
    2. If bag is empty refill from Used.
    3. Choose one die from bag and draw it.

    (And in the case of Assemble, repeat this process if you have two or more dice of the same affiliation in the field (and I do not think that either die drawn needs to match affiliation with either those fielded or the other drawn))
    I am still not sure about how teamwork would work on this one, but why do you think you would refill the bag? I read this as one of those abilities where you may just end up not having anything in the bag, similar to abilities that depend on dice being in the used pile or prep area.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    I am still not sure about how teamwork would work on this one, but why do you think you would refill the bag? I read this as one of those abilities where you may just end up not having anything in the bag, similar to abilities that depend on dice being in the used pile or prep area.
    I have no cast iron reason for thinking that, I just don't see any fundamental difference between 'draw' and 'search'.

  9. #9
    I agree, search doesn't trigger bag refills, only drawing. Even effects that have us search don't usually have us then draw the die, they have us search and field or search and move, etc.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Even effects that have us search don't usually have us then draw the die, they have us search and field or search and move, etc.
    How do you field or move a die that was in your bag if you don't first draw it?

  11. #11
    Syntax, I read these words as having distinct mechanisms:

    Draw - blindly select a die from your bag

    Search - look in your bag and remove a die you've selected (or were instructed to find)

    In both cases, the card will tell you what to do with the die you just took out of your bag.

    I agree with @Shadowmeld - a search doesn't initiate a bag refill. If you are searching, why fill an empty bag? Just select a die from the Used Pile - the result is the same - seems counterintuitive to move your dice from the Used Pile, "search" you bag and select a die you just put into it. In this context, I can see how one can interpret "draw" and "search" to mean the same.

    Just like the Used Pile, the rules state "The Bag" as a distinct part of the Play Area and has specific (albeit implied) mechanisms governing its function. For example, the rules cover the situation of drawing from an empty bag. A search of the bag is a different mechanism than drawing from the bag.

    If your bag is empty when you are instructed to search it, bad break - you get nothing.

    While not "official" that is how I'd rule on the situation.

  12. #12
    Whilst I certainly understand the logic behind the distinction, and know other games do make such distinctions, I simply see nothing in the rules or rulings that even comes close to defining such a distinction within this game.

    If someone could point me to a rule or ruling that in some way defines 'search' as being a distinct and different mechanism to 'draw', then I would happily change my mind.

    But I have looked, and I can find no such thing.

  13. #13
    I'm actually surprised they've never addressed this before. I'll do some research and see if it is hidden somewhere.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    I'm actually surprised they've never addressed this before. I'll do some research and see if it is hidden somewhere.
    Edit, disregard this I'm too tired to think right now.

  15. #15
    You refill your bag when you would draw a die and it is empty. The bag doesn't check for when this happens. It can happen during your Clear and Draw Step or during another step.


    Stole that from the wizkids forums off of a beast 666 ruling with dice refill. It looks like to get a refill of bag, the word draw is required. Unless they rule otherwise It seems if you went to search and had no target you would be out of luck.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Whilst I certainly understand the logic behind the distinction, and know other games do make such distinctions, I simply see nothing in the rules or rulings that even comes close to defining such a distinction within this game.

    If someone could point me to a rule or ruling that in some way defines 'search' as being a distinct and different mechanism to 'draw', then I would happily change my mind.

    But I have looked, and I can find no such thing.
    Scott, your response spurred me to do some deeper research.

    Consider the following cards:



    and Pepper Potts - Stark International (no image):
    Pepper Potts can't attack. When Pepper Potts is KO'd, search your bag for an Iron Man die and field it at level 1 for free.

    These 6 cards, along with Assemble! are the only ones with "search" in their card text.

    While there is not a specific definition of "search" in the rules, the usage of this word in the context of the above cards implies that you must examine your "unseen" dice (i.e. those in the bag) and retrieve the applicable die.

    This retrieval is not a "draw" of the die, which, by the rules, would require you to refill an empty bag to complete the act of "drawing" a die.

    Since other cards (see below) use the words "draw a die from your bag" in lieu of "search", then I believe there is a distinct context with the word "search".



    The difference is for "search" the text refers to a specific type of die, whereas "draw a die" has no distinction.

    I do not know how to explain it any further. My feeling is search and draw are different mechanisms that have distinct applications for each: draw = bag refill; search = makes no provision to refill an empty bag.

  17. #17
    A short description of the trade offs here:

    Search you either get the die you want or nothing.
    Draw you get a die, even if it's not the one you want.

  18. #18
    Yeah, I absolutely understand the logic and the reasoning.

    But, the fact remains that nothing in the rules, or any ruling, to my knowledge, provides a distinct or different definition for the term 'search'.

    We only have a definition for the term 'draw'.

    So, whilst you may well be right, I think we must fall back on what we know, not what we feel, and so cannot make any kind of assumption that 'search' means anything more than 'draw a specific die'.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    I would think you wouldn't be able to refill simply based on the card saying you get to Search your BAG. If you could use any dice you wanted, why specify bag?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkat67 View Post
    I would think you wouldn't be able to refill simply based on the card saying you get to Search your BAG. If you could use any dice you wanted, why specify bag?
    Because if you do have dice in your bag then you can only search for a die that is currently in there.

    Which is exactly the same as drawing - if you have dice in your bag you can only draw from those dice, if you do not then you first refill from used.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by duroyprofundo View Post
    Based on the new judge guidance provided by Wizkids, wouldn't "defaulting to weaker abilities" trigger here meaning we would actually fall back to not refilling the bag?
    Arguably allowing a refill is not weaker.

    The two alternatives simply encourage different styles of play:

    If you can refil your bag then it is of benefit to you keep your bag empty.

    If you can't refil your bag then it is of benefit to you to keep as many dice as you can in it.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Because if you do have dice in your bag then you can only search for a die that is currently in there.

    Which is exactly the same as drawing - if you have dice in your bag you can only draw from those dice, if you do not then you first refill from used.
    I see what you're saying but Draw has specific rules stating to refill your bag and Search does not so why assume you can refill same as Draw?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkat67 View Post
    I see what you're saying but Draw has specific rules stating to refill your bag and Search does not so why assume you can refill same as Draw?
    Why assume that you cannot?

    Search has no definition within the game.

    Only draw does.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Why assume that you cannot?

    Search has no definition within the game.

    Only draw does.
    Simply just that, it has no definition. So far it appears on this forum, which makes sense, if its not specified in the rules then you do what the card says to the T and not assume. In this case Search the Bag, done. It seems you are making up a definition for Search while no where does it say to Refill your bag but card says Search your BAG.

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