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Thread: Mystique Ageless timing question

  1. #1

    Mystique Ageless timing question

    Mystique Ageless says:
    Mystique gets +1A and +1D for each die in your prep area.
    I am familiar with this ruling:
    which says that damage is assigned simultaneously, such that any dice KO'd wouldn't increase the damage that Mystique deals, as this damage as already been assigned. I get this.

    My question is about her defense while attacking. If I attack with a Mystique and a Sidekick, and both are blocked by Sidekicks, and I currently have nothing in my prep area, my first thought would be that everything would die. However, on page 8 of the Uncanny rulebook, it says (emphasis mine):
    Once all damage has been assigned, knock out each character that took damage greater than or equal to its defense. When a character is knocked out, move it to that player’s prep area. If game effects are generated by a character taking damage or being knocked out, the attacking player resolves all effects first, then the defender.
    and page 19 says:
    If simultaneous effects are controlled by the same player, that player chooses the order of those effects.
    So all damage would be assigned, then because KO'ing causes a game effect (changing Mystique's A/D), I would choose the order of those effects. If I choose to have my Sidekick go to the prep area first, then Mystiques defense is now 2, but she has only taken 1 damage. She wouldn't get to deal 2 damage, as her damage has already been assigned (in keeping with the above ruling), but wouldn't this mean she would not be KO'd when it comes time to resolve that effect?

  2. #2
    First - she received 1 damage while her defense was 1 - she is KO'd. Second - all the damage is assigned simultaneously, and *all* KO'd dice go to Prep simultaneously.

  3. #3
    I'm not sure if this ruling applies here, or not:

    This is one those areas of the rules that I feel need significant clarification.

    That said, if I had to rule on it in an tournament, or some such, then I would rule against the OP on the 'least powerful interpretation' principle.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I'm not sure if this ruling applies here, or not:
    The third post in that link is very confusing. To me, that FAQ answer would make it sound like Hulk Anger Issues (and Mystique in this case) would go to the Prep pile before any effects from taking damage (such as Green Goliath's) are applied. It says (emphasis mine):
    any characters with lethal damage are KO’d and moved to the Prep Area at the same time as characters who were unblocked go to the Used Pile. After that, other effects are applied (such as Hulk, Green Goliath’s).
    but they then go on to say that Hulk is still saved from his defensive boost. I don't get that.

    Regardless, that FAQ item in particular does seem like it would apply to Mystique, if all characters are moved and then effects are applied, so she would not be saved. Thanks!

  5. #5
    Well, no, the FAQ entry does not apply - that is talking solely about characters that attack, are not blocked, and go to used.

    It is not talking about characters that are KO'd.

    And it was indeed the Hulk oddness that was my reason for posting the link.

    I think it is possible that Mystique might well survive!

  6. #6
    I think the difference between Hulk Anger Issues and Mystique is that Hulk checks for damage being done, and Mystique checks for dice in the Prep.

    Hulk's ability technically triggers when damage is resolved, but before dice are moved to the KO. When damaged almost has a separate timing window than other triggered effects.
    Where as Mystique, triggers from looking at the Prep area. At the point where you would check the Prep area for a bonus to her, she is already in the Prep area, and no longer active.

  7. #7
    It seems like the real question for this card is, do all dice go to the prep area at the same time, or do they go one at a time? My original thought was that, specifically because a dice going to the prep area causes a game effect to occur, the attacking player would "resolve all game effects", per pg 8, and since multiple game effects would happen simultaneously, the attackers "chooses the order of those effects", per pg 19. I resolve the KO of the sidekick before I resolve the KO of Mystique. As we saw with the ruling that Scorpion0x17 linked to, a character can take lethal damage, have an effect change their defense value, and not be KO'd; if so, then when it comes time to resolve the effects of Mystique's damage, she would be a 2x2, and would not KO.

    The wording of the third post seems to contradict this position, but then they do seem to say that this wording specifically applies to trying to KO an unblocked attacker. If so, maybe Mystique does survive? I don't know.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    I think the difference between Hulk Anger Issues and Mystique is that Hulk checks for damage being done, and Mystique checks for dice in the Prep.
    Yeah, that's why I'm not sure if it applies or not.

    This and the other question @dwilhelmi raises, about how one resolves simultaneous effects, are the two areas that I feel most need further clarification.

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