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Thread: Pro Dice Circuit Discussion

  1. #1

    Pro Dice Circuit Discussion

    Just thought I would throw this up so we can talk about the Pro Dice Circuit and share opinions.

    To start it off, My store didn't get involved since my scene is dead, but I'm excited for what this will mean for growth of the game. I think this will be like the Star City Games events for MTG.

    So what do you guys think will happen with this, do you think the meta will be the same across every state?

    do you think it will give Dice Masters the well needed spotlight it's been hurting for?

  2. #2
    I think they need to design a better play mat!

    Boy that thing is hideous!

    But, on a more serious note...

    One thing I worry about is that it will divide the community.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I think they need to design a better play mat!

    Boy that thing is hideous!

    But, on a more serious note...

    One thing I worry about is that it will divide the community.
    Do you think it will make things more competitive and make people feel more reserved when it comes to sharing deck ideas and such?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    Do you think it will make things more competitive and make people feel more reserved when it comes to sharing deck ideas and such?
    Partly that.

    Partly that I think it may create a larger divide between the 'casual' players and the 'competitive' players.

    (In the sense of there becoming entirely separate forums and/or Facebook groups for each)

    There is already a certain amount of this.

    (Also, it is my understanding that they will have their own set of rules and rulings)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Partly that.

    Partly that I think it may create a larger divide between the 'casual' players and the 'competitive' players.

    (In the sense of there becoming entirely separate forums and/or Facebook groups for each)

    There is already a certain amount of this.

    (Also, it is my understanding that they will have their own set of rules and rulings)
    Own rules and rulings eh? I'm definitely against that. Sure, Wizkids may be somewhat inconsistent and sparing with their rules updates, but another body setting their own sets of rules is only going to create confusion. I can already see the "well in the PDC this works" & "but but wizkids says no it's different" arguments in the rules sections if this is the case.

    As for the divide, I agree it will likely widen the gap, but I think it's too early to say what exactly will come of it. I hopped on the store computer to look into signing up for the PDC and didn't find it worthwhile to be honest. The prize support isn't official, so it's not like we'll be missing out on any OP's by not having it. I'd rather keep my area welcoming and friendly to all players instead of favouring one group or the other.

  6. #6
    I really don't think they will have their own set of rules contradicting Wizkids. I do think they will be up front with how they will rule cards UNTIL Wizkids makes an official stance in the rules forum. But, there is absolutely no way that they will have their own rules that go against what Wizkids rules on the forum.

  7. #7
    I'm one of the PDC organizers. Hopefully I can answer some of these questions:

    1) There has been no discussion regarding rulings at all. But if those discussions were to happen, I am certain that the PDC will not establish any rulings that would contradict the rule books or rules forum.

    2) It is my hope that the PDC will narrow--not widen--the gap between competitive and casual players in two ways. First, by sharing information regarding top teams at events (and we had 100+ stores apply to hold championships, so that is a lot of events) we hope to make information regarding top competitive teams more widely available. Right now, many people on these boards have appropriately identified a relative absence of that information. This will hopefully remedy that. Second, PDC events will hopefully provide an outlet for competitive players other than bringing all super rare teams to their FLGSs, allowing for a more casual atmosphere at other OP events. The impact will of course be different in different areas, but I believe that both of these things will happen at least for my local scene.

    3) I also want to emphasize that offering a PDC event at a store is not favoring one group of players over another. It provides options. One type of event should not be offered at the expense of another and not all events will be favored by all players. It is only by offering a wide variety of events that a dice masters scene will flourish and grow, and PDC events are simply one more tool at a store/TOs toolkit to help accomplish that.

    Thanks to everyone who has been supporting PDC events so far. The response to date has blown our expectations out of the water. We are starting to post event dates as they come in. You can find them at www.prodicecircuit.com.

  8. #8
    I've been checking this out and I'm extremely proud of what Indy Mon and the other players have established for this. I've been wanting to hit up a few more "serious" tournaments as my local shop has a pretty good community, but we're usually playtesting new decks every week. While great, it's interesting what other people can come up with. I shot the owner of the store I play at a message and he said he sent an e-mail. Here's wondering if he'll follow through though and use his venue as a location for the tournament. As it stands though, it amazes me how many potential places have a local tournament. Especially in the International scene. My gal was surprised when she saw that someone had applied for Guatemala!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I think they need to design a better play mat!

    Boy that thing is hideous!
    Explain what you think makes a better playmat.

  10. #10
    As someone who firmly strattles the line between casual and competitive play, we needed this. We need an event that can be done at the store/local scene that is at a competitive level and is similar across the board and gives people a chance to compete against others in their region consistently. I am happy to be a part of this (I am taking over Dave's spot as the liaison from TRP on the team) and look forward to seeing the people that might be apprehensive to play at a national or world level still have a competitive scene. Casual gets love on a weekly basis at most locations. This will allow competition to be raised, rivalries to form and an examination of the meta scene across the country and even into other parts of the world.

  11. #11
    My store has switched over to almost exclusively casual formats to try to attract new players. I agree this is a good idea, but i like competitive play. I think offering more chances to play is always good, and having more high level deck list postings seems great. Currently there are only 2 or 3 high lvl events available to me a year and i don't think that's enough. I really like the idea that these could grow into an SCG style events down the line.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Partly that.

    Partly that I think it may create a larger divide between the 'casual' players and the 'competitive' players.

    (In the sense of there becoming entirely separate forums and/or Facebook groups for each)

    There is already a certain amount of this.

    (Also, it is my understanding that they will have their own set of rules and rulings)
    Not trying to be defensive here, but where was it ever mentioned that we would be using our own set of rules or rulings.

    Mostly if that's your understanding, you must have seen it somewhere or been told so we'd like to rectify that situation.

  13. #13
    I think the idea of the Pro Circuit is a welcome edition for people who want to have competitive play. Where I live, there are four game stores in lafayette, IN. With it being home to Purdue you would think there would be more dice masters players in the area, but no. Each one of the stores carries some form of DM product, the store I usually play at is just now starting to get an upswing of players and is just now talking about doing OP play. The format is being left up to the regulars at the store. I did try to get OP started with a neighboring store that is closer to my house. I was told "hey you run it and we will let the people know about it". I told people about it, but really no extending support from the game store (store website, social media) nothing. I digress but again I believe another outlet to get people playing more competitively is a welcome addition.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I really don't think they will have their own set of rules contradicting Wizkids. I do think they will be up front with how they will rule cards UNTIL Wizkids makes an official stance in the rules forum.
    ^^^This is what I meant, not that they would make their own rules that contradicted the official ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Mon View Post
    I'm one of the PDC organizers. Hopefully I can answer some of these questions:

    1) There has been no discussion regarding rulings at all. But if those discussions were to happen, I am certain that the PDC will not establish any rulings that would contradict the rule books or rules forum.
    Thanks for that clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Mon View Post
    2) It is my hope that the PDC will narrow--not widen--the gap between competitive and casual players in two ways. First, by sharing information regarding top teams at events (and we had 100+ stores apply to hold championships, so that is a lot of events) we hope to make information regarding top competitive teams more widely available. Right now, many people on these boards have appropriately identified a relative absence of that information. This will hopefully remedy that. Second, PDC events will hopefully provide an outlet for competitive players other than bringing all super rare teams to their FLGSs, allowing for a more casual atmosphere at other OP events. The impact will of course be different in different areas, but I believe that both of these things will happen at least for my local scene.
    I certainly hope that that is the case.

    I just fear that, due to human nature, it will not turn out that way. I can see it turning in to a 'pro tour' of Dice Masters, a 'PDC meta' will emerge, competitive players will play to that meta, the top teams that you publish will reinforce that meta, and it will become divorced from, rather than strengthening, the casual play meta.

    But, don't get me wrong - I think something like this is a very good thing for the game - but you will need to be very careful about how you run it, so as to avoid distorting and ultimately dividing the player base.

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzarony View Post
    Explain what you think makes a better playmat.
    Almost any different colour combination would be better. I'm sure someone spent time designing it, and the overall design is great, but the colour choices are just horrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Not trying to be defensive here, but where was it ever mentioned that we would be using our own set of rules or rulings.

    Mostly if that's your understanding, you must have seen it somewhere or been told so we'd like to rectify that situation.
    I don't recall who stated it. Or where. Someone on Facebook I think.

    I am glad to hear that it is incorrect.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Almost any different colour combination would be better. I'm sure someone spent time designing it, and the overall design is great, but the colour choices are just horrible.
    Amongst the 7 people behind the PDC, we all voted on a number of different color schemes, and this was the top rated one. It won't be the same for every level of events, and it won't even be the same next year. We'll change it up for each event.

  16. #16
    None listed for my state. Will probably have to road trip if I want to attend, and I'm not sure the prize pool is worth it.

  17. #17

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post

    I just fear that, due to human nature, it will not turn out that way. I can see it turning in to a 'pro tour' of Dice Masters, a 'PDC meta' will emerge, competitive players will play to that meta, the top teams that you publish will reinforce that meta, and it will become divorced from, rather than strengthening, the casual play meta.

    But, don't get me wrong - I think something like this is a very good thing for the game - but you will need to be very careful about how you run it, so as to avoid distorting and ultimately dividing the player base.
    I will admit to my biases now just to clear up my opinions for anyone who reads them. I come from a yugioh background, which has the alternative tournament circuit called the ARG circuit which is not affiliated with Konami. To be curt, I'm not a huge fan of the ARG or it's practices, and I worry that the PDC could, with time, become like the ARG circuit series. Things with good intentions can, over time, be warped into something unhealthy for the game, and I feel it's best for myself and my locals to keep our distance and observe for now. That's not to say I'm completely against the PDC, I want it to be good for the game and for the players because I care about this game continued success, but I do still worry about the potential the PDC has to divide the playerbase.

  20. #20
    "
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    I will admit to my biases now just to clear up my opinions for anyone who reads them. I come from a yugioh background, which has the alternative tournament circuit called the ARG circuit which is not affiliated with Konami. To be curt, I'm not a huge fan of the ARG or it's practices, and I worry that the PDC could, with time, become like the ARG circuit series. Things with good intentions can, over time, be warped into something unhealthy for the game, and I feel it's best for myself and my locals to keep our distance and observe for now. That's not to say I'm completely against the PDC, I want it to be good for the game and for the players because I care about this game continued success, but I do still worry about the potential the PDC has to divide the playerbase.

    Being unfamiliar with YuGiOh or ARG, can you share some of where you feel they went wrong? Might be nice to know on the front end.

    And honestly to address the comments on hurting the player base-I have a hard time seeing how anything that raises exposure to people playing is overall a bad thing. People have been asking for more competitive arenas for quite some time now.

  21. #21
    On top of all that has been said, PDC gives folks a reason to travel and play DM in other locations as it allows events to be advertised well in advance. Currently the competitive schedule for WK events is unknown, but PDC atleast gives a schedule for folks to plan to travel for.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I really don't think they will have their own set of rules contradicting Wizkids. I do think they will be up front with how they will rule cards UNTIL Wizkids makes an official stance in the rules forum. But, there is absolutely no way that they will have their own rules that go against what Wizkids rules on the forum.
    They're doing what needs to be done - look at the ROC for HeroClix, it honestly saved it so much by creating interesting and unique formats for different "seasons," and made the rulings on overpowered pieces (very, very rarely) that the community wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Partly that.

    Partly that I think it may create a larger divide between the 'casual' players and the 'competitive' players.

    (In the sense of there becoming entirely separate forums and/or Facebook groups for each)

    There is already a certain amount of this.

    (Also, it is my understanding that they will have their own set of rules and rulings)
    Also, I don't think it's splitting the community... It's one "thing." Nobody has to participate, and it's not like every week at your local store is going to be one of these events.

    Everyone likes to take the gloves off and really test their mettle in a competitive setting sometimes, and we all can't make it to "Nationals" or "Worlds," so this is a really awesome way to introduce one to a more competitive style of play.

    As of now, I have one event scheduled with the store. That's one PDC event, with all sorts of other fun stuff going on around.

    A LOT of people want to play more competitively, but have been being really nice and cool and playing down for their local meta to keep it fun. People want an outlet to play competitively and test their stuff. I can't possibly see what would be wrong with this.

    I imagine that they're going to make rulings on very obviously broken things, very rarely, such as the ROC for HeroClix, and not eagerly, but it's possible. I'm just stoked to see some people taking some real responsibility for helping to make this even MORE legitimate. The more Dice Masters tournament bodies, the better the game is doing... obviously that isn't necessarily always true with everything, but I think it works well here.

    EDIT: Just read all the stuff posted after these posts, about rules, by the organizers, and that's what I assumed, basically and hopefully, lol. There might be some very fringe cases, but I can't imagine rules changes being a reason to have created this. I'm glad that rumor was put to rest early.
    Last edited by SlapsterMcFlash; 10-14-2015 at 07:35 PM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I just fear that, due to human nature, it will not turn out that way. I can see it turning in to a 'pro tour' of Dice Masters, a 'PDC meta' will emerge, competitive players will play to that meta, the top teams that you publish will reinforce that meta, and it will become divorced from, rather than strengthening, the casual play meta.

    But, don't get me wrong - I think something like this is a very good thing for the game - but you will need to be very careful about how you run it, so as to avoid distorting and ultimately dividing the player base.
    What would be wrong with a "Pro Tour" in the first place? This a competitive game, made to have winners and losers. It's awesome, because I can play casually and for fun with friends and at most events, and every couple of months, the store can run a "no holds barred" event to let players try out their competitive teams. People want to play their badass, super fast kill teams - they spent time designing them, and want to see how they stack up to the designs of other people.

    It's definitely not fun to have that kind of event even every other week, but I think it is important that there's a body like this that will host those - if nothing else, now local TOs/judges can schedule fewer "no holds barred" events, with the PDC existing.

    I also have no problems with teams being posted. I'll be super honest here: I'm not the best team builder. I like to see how teams worked out, and then get ideas from that. I also like playing teams I've seen, and try to figure out how they win (especially the less obvious non-unblockable FWX type teams). It's also nice to know what might be coming up; this is just like any other collectible and competitive game that I've ever known, especially in the age of the internet.

    People are going to sometimes play casually, and sometimes play competitively. For this reason, I've worked very hard at my store to cultivate an atmosphere when people "know" it's time to take the gloves off, and it's time to have fun - and it's not even about the prizes; plenty of people ask for full on constructed events, and people buy cards and build teams so that they can then try those out. I certainly don't encourage the use of power teams normally, and specifically post "no holds barred" type verbiage for those events.

    It's worked, also. Last Sunday, we had 8 people, with the stipulation your team had to have 4 cards with one affiliation and 4 with a different. I couldn't believe that there was no team that was half Tsarina/Green Goliath/Wasp/whatever else. There wasn't even a Green Goliath, or PXG... or Tsarina, brought. I put Tsarina and PXG on a team for a kid who got there with just enough time to join but didn't have a set up to build a 2 affiliation team that was half decent within a couple minutes, he wasn't too experienced, so I knew he wasn't going to just run game on everyone, and he didn't. I basically told him he wanted to get FWX out with stealth ops, and it was fun just to see the twinkle in his eye when he figured out why and how that worked the first time he did it in a game and saw the results.

    Back to the point, though... I just don't see what's wrong with more than one style of play, along with letting the general public know what's up in the meta. I am not the best team builder, and it's nice to know what tricks might be coming at me, or see a little trick and expound on it on my own. Also, consider the people who don't have a place to play often, and don't get to see a lot of teams. I know if I was in that situation, it would really up my enjoyment of the game by seeing what other teams existed that were doing really well.

    And if the TO is doing their job well, the atmosphere at the store isn't going to be one that encourages Top-8 teams at every constructed event. I used to have a restricted list before/at the beginning of AoU, with Tsarina, Hellblazer, Gobby, and then Jocasta on it. I realized I didn't need it, or hoped I suppose is more accurate, so I took it away, and nothing changed. It was beautiful.

    I think it's beautiful that we're being given so many options now for play-styles, from kitchen table to store casual to store competitive to circuit competitive to whatever else is in between. This game is expanding so quickly, and it's important that a good group of people step up and help make a separate tournament body to help keep things moving slowly, and give players options.

    These bodies also exist for Magic (Star City Games) and HeroClix (The ROC), and have only done great things for those games. People love it - it also makes it more possible for the game to eventually have enough of a circuit that there could be people who travel to events super regularly, even more than already. I'm just brain-storming now, I just don't get the dislike for this.

    A lot of people don't have access to local resources for team building, and although I'm not a fan of straight up net-decking, I am a fan of ideas, and sharing information. There's no reason these builds should be kept under lock and key or anything, in case they "fall into the wrong hands." Nobody said that, I'm not actually quoting anyone, to be clear.

    All that the PDC does, in my opinion, is give people more options for ways to play, and places to play, times to play, etc...

    Also, I want to restate that if the store's TO/judge(s) are doing things well, the atmosphere at the store will be one in which people don't want to play OP teams in a setting where it would be totally rude.

    People also have a right to play with the cards that they bought and own, especially given this is a collectible game that people spend money on the cards of, not just a board game with expansions released with everything in them, and this is part of the natural order of those types of games.

    I'm so stoked. Literally only waiting on my local store to e-mail me their Paypal (they sent the go ahead to finish the second application but forgot to include the e-mail and now are super busy with Magic), and I'm ready for our shop to be up on that event list!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    On top of all that has been said, PDC gives folks a reason to travel and play DM in other locations as it allows events to be advertised well in advance. Currently the competitive schedule for WK events is unknown, but PDC atleast gives a schedule for folks to plan to travel for.
    I LOVE LOVE LOVE new players, as you never know who'll be throwing a curveball, and people in this game are so generally awesome, that it's always been the more the merrier at any event I've been to.

    I travel to other stores just as much as I would hope other players who don't normally play at our store would, at least every other week, and love meeting new players, both to organize games outside of "Dice Masters hours" at the local game shop, more people to trade with, and more to roll up to an event with in your posse - haha; I'm serious though.

    I'm really stoked to both travel to other stores and have new players travel to ours.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    On top of all that has been said, PDC gives folks a reason to travel and play DM in other locations as it allows events to be advertised well in advance. Currently the competitive schedule for WK events is unknown, but PDC atleast gives a schedule for folks to plan to travel for.
    This is the huge one for me, wizkids events aren't advertised far enough in advance for me to even plan for going to it, or it's too far away.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    This is the huge one for me, wizkids events aren't advertised far enough in advance for me to even plan for going to it, or it's too far away.
    I've really been working hard on trying to plan things further and further in advance.

    I just hate not being able to put prize support down, or putting the wrong info and disappointing people. Also, the distributor isn't always reliable, so we don't always get the product we were supposed to have for the event, and I've advertised a draft for set A, but all we have left of unopened feeds is set F.

    People are fortunately really chill, and actually stayed for what was supposed to be an Age of Ultron draft and drafted YGO, because it was the only sealed set we had.

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