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Thread: Agent Venom - A thing I noticed, but second opinions wanted

  1. #1

    Agent Venom - A thing I noticed, but second opinions wanted

    The choice of words used on that card - it says "field", not move, not swap, but field. Do you think this is actually what its meant to say? I ask this because this is potentially game breaking.

    If so, Agent Venom + Human Torch + Magic Missile (global) + Iceman (global) is infinite damage. You flip your sidekicks into bolts, pay to buff his defense, shoot him causing all of your sidekicks to chain back into play while holding 1 bolt, flip everything back into bolts to re-up his defense, etc. It only works on your opponent's turn but it's an infinite damage combo that only requires 2 die purchases, 1 other dedicate character spot, and 1 BAC slot meaning your build could actually have a ton of utility. With PXG, Red Dragon, and Polymorph this is a turn 3 kill - leaving 3 spots you can dedicate to utility. I can't think of any other combo in the game where almost half of your team can be literally anything.

    Also, because he can field from used or prep you can kinda play around Prismatic Spray by "going off" on your turn and pinging the sidekicks as they come into play with Human Torch. Field a sidekick ping the sidekick + Opponent, field another sidekick ping the opponent + Agent Venom, get the sidekick back from prep. You just need to alternate how you spend your bolts. Not infinite but it's a lot of damage that they can't really interact with.

  2. #2
    What is the actual wording on the card?

  3. #3
    Ability:
    When Agent Venom takes damage but is not KO'd, you may field a Sidekick from your Used Pile or Prep Area.

    Global: Pay 1. Target character gets +1D.

  4. #4
    I can't see it working because when the bolts (from SK dice I assume) are spent they go out of play, and can't then be fielded.

  5. #5
    If its your opponent's turn the bolts go to used, which allows an infinite loop. If its your turn you can't deal infinite damage, but you can alternate how you use your bolts and deal 1+x damage where x is the number of sidekick dice rolled and fielded - 1(for spinning into bolts). So on their turn you can have lethal, on your turn you can have up to 8 damage just from activating globals.

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  8. #8
    Jade Giant shuts it down.

    In fact, because it only works fully on your opponent's turn, there are a lot of very common counters to it.

    Neat trick, but is only going to work against an opponent once (barring bad rolls, and/or lack of answers, on their part).

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Jade Giant shuts it down.

    In fact, because it only works fully on your opponent's turn, there are a lot of very common counters to it.

    Neat trick, but is only going to work against an opponent once (barring bad rolls, and/or lack of answers, on their part).
    I agree that it will have counters, but this team takes 3 slots to build a win condition around, that gives you 5 answers to their answers. Pretty solid start to a team.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    I agree that it will have counters, but this team takes 3 slots to build a win condition around, that gives you 5 answers to their answers. Pretty solid start to a team.
    Oh, yeah, I agree.

    But most win-cons take two or three slots at most.

    It's definitely up there with the other tier 1 or 2 win-cons.

    However, the answers to it are commonly used answers to many win-cons.

    So it's nowhere near game breaking.

  12. #12
    The thing is we know Manticore combo is pretty competitive, and that requires more purchases because you need multiple double energy guys in your bag for it to work, not to mention you have to clear out your bag to get it going. This needs 2 purchases, and only cares that there are at least 3 SKs between your reserve, field, used pile, and prep area. It also is a combo that can still play its game plan on your turn if you're worried about answers - just not go infinite with it. If you really wanted to you could just jam Agent Venom into a Johnny Swarm team - it can now go infinite, and if they bought things that make it not infinite you're still playing Johnny Swarm's game plan.

  13. #13
    I think the issue is that the things that stopped Johnny Swarm, still stop this. However, the fact that you limit Johnny Swarm's "face time" or increase it's "time to kill" is a solid argument for it. I will say, if you're buying a 6 cost guy, that dramatically hinders the core concept of Johnny Swarm (cheap swarm of characters), however, the fact that the swarm characters are fist characters, just like AVenom, making for a synergistic buy order.

  14. #14
    I don't see how it can go infinite. This all requires you to ping Agent Venom. At most he has 6 life and he cannot be KOed for his effect to activate, which means you could only do it 5 times at most (assuming 1 Agent Venom Die is in the field). Not to mention that the Iceman - Tool Cool for Words ability to buff can only be done once per turn.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    I don't see how it can go infinite. This all requires you to ping Agent Venom. At most he has 6 life and he cannot be KOed for his effect to activate, which means you could only do it 5 times at most (assuming 1 Agent Venom Die is in the field). Not to mention that the Iceman - Tool Cool for Words ability to buff can only be done once per turn.
    Good. The more players that don't see the combo the better it is for us that do see it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    Good. The more players that don't see the combo the better it is for us that do see it.
    Lol, even with Agent Venom's global you can still only buff Iceman once.

    Edit: Nevermind. I see it. Risky. If the other player has a reserve bolt or ? he/she can stop the combo. This also requires you to have a bolt in reserve before your opponent's turn. Nice find.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Lol, even with Agent Venom's global you can still only buff Iceman once.
    Why would he buff Iceman? He's only there for the global.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by IgwanaRob View Post
    Why would he buff Iceman? He's only there for the global.
    He mentioned buffing him. I wasn't sure why he would even field Iceman for this combo.

  19. #19
    EDIT: Just realised what I was missing.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    The thing is we know Manticore combo is pretty competitive, and that requires more purchases because you need multiple double energy guys in your bag for it to work, not to mention you have to clear out your bag to get it going. This needs 2 purchases, and only cares that there are at least 3 SKs between your reserve, field, used pile, and prep area. It also is a combo that can still play its game plan on your turn if you're worried about answers - just not go infinite with it. If you really wanted to you could just jam Agent Venom into a Johnny Swarm team - it can now go infinite, and if they bought things that make it not infinite you're still playing Johnny Swarm's game plan.
    The more I see the manticore combo go off, the more I wonder if it would be benficial for the game to implement the transition zone during both players turns.

    Ex: Player 1 spends energy which go to transition, then ends their turn, spent energy goes to used pile. Player 2 then spends energy to field a character and passes priority, when player 1 spends a bolt for magic missile global, the spent energy goes to transition instead of used, and then goes to the used pile when player 2 ends their turn. This also slightly decreases the overall power of PXG, for better or for worse depending on your outlook.

    On topic, millenium puzzle is probably the best counter card in the game these days for dealing with characters on your opponents turn, since prismatic spray always has to show up and ruin everything :P.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    On topic, millenium puzzle is probably the best counter card in the game these days for dealing with characters on your opponents turn, since prismatic spray always has to show up and ruin everything :P.
    The combo in question here works best (against you) on your turn, not theirs.

  22. #22
    Wait up...

    Are you sure this works?

    I mean, are you sure it goes infinite?

    I can see it maybe generating enough damage to win, but...

    Don't you lose energy every time you convert SKs in to energy and when you buff A.Venom to keep him alive?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    The combo in question here works best (against you) on your turn, not theirs.
    Edit: I'm pretty sure this is meant to be used on your opponent's turn, as scum pointed out. I can say for certain that the first half of my comment was aimed specifically at that evil red manticore and his burn friends.

    Right on about puzzle though, I'm getting mixed up by your getting mixed up and now I'm spinning, spinning, spinning...

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    Edit: I'm pretty sure this is meant to be used on your opponent's turn, as scum pointed out. I can say for certain that the first half of my comment was aimed specifically at that evil red manticore and his burn friends.

    Right on about puzzle though, I'm getting mixed up by your getting mixed up and now I'm spinning, spinning, spinning...
    I meant that if you are the person facing this combo, not the person using it, it then works best, for them, on your turn, not theirs.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I meant that if you are the person facing this combo, not the person using it, it then works best, for them, on your turn, not theirs.
    I think we're both talking about the same thing here. Scum said this combo works best on your opponent's turn (if you are the person playing the combo)

    It only works on your opponent's turn
    I believe opponent here is referring to the opponent of the player attempting this combo. I was talking about it in this sense.

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