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Thread: Is it just me or is this game getting more and more contradicting?

  1. #1

    Is it just me or is this game getting more and more contradicting?

    First of all I love this game! But does it seem, especially as the game grows with new cards like LR:LOBI, that its just getting more and more confusing?

    I've played Munchkins for a while now which is basically the same in the sense you have a set of rules (or rules of thumb) and the cards in the game can override that and so on. I have 3 sets we play with, that's hundreds of cards. But after a few times on the Munchkins forums you get a sense of the rules of thumb that can apply to any complicated situation and you can start figuring it out on your own. I've never really seen a situation on Munchkins where people are back and forth trying to decide how a card is played right.

    With DM it seems I can't play without being on the forums everyday. One by one my kids have slowly lost interest over time. My local comic store doesn't hold events anymore. What are most people doing? Do you just say, screw it and come up with a house rule on cards?

    This is one game I would not want to play with strangers. I can't imagine everyone is playing it the same way. Are sets coming out too fast without enough Quality Control time?

  2. #2
    Hm in my opinion this game gets clearer and clearer until its reaching its Peak(what is far away i think) with the rules.

    You should look from the other side.

    with UXM and AVX, there where effects that no one was knowing what to do with them. Now with every set , they setting new stones to complete this wall.

    Also i dont understand what you mean with "one by one kids" ? This game has a tendency like Magic, but owait, why playing DM if you can play Magic?

    See it is normal, if it happens at your city/store than do something about it.

    When we have so much sets that they must make Limited like Golden Age etc... to avoid hard rules-crossing, than yes so be it, that would be the time where hardcore fans stay and play tournament style and other people should use a userfriendly one.

    To your last part:
    If you dont want to play with strangers, that possibly could have a different understanding of the rules as you, instead become friends through the game or other stuff and involve them a little about the Rulemadness.


    In times like this where Hearthstone can on the fly change rules of a card, Analog games have it even harder and a lot more work to do, to change something.
    I trust Wizkids, that if a major issue is coming up you will in near time a Rulessheet or in the next set a change for it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ressless View Post
    Hm in my opinion this game gets clearer and clearer until its reaching its Peak(what is far away i think) with the rules.

    You should look from the other side.

    with UXM and AVX, there where effects that no one was knowing what to do with them. Now with every set , they setting new stones to complete this wall.

    Also i dont understand what you mean with "one by one kids" ? This game has a tendency like Magic, but owait, why playing DM if you can play Magic?

    See it is normal, if it happens at your city/store than do something about it.

    When we have so much sets that they must make Limited like Golden Age etc... to avoid hard rules-crossing, than yes so be it, that would be the time where hardcore fans stay and play tournament style and other people should use a userfriendly one.

    To your last part:
    If you dont want to play with strangers, that possibly could have a different understanding of the rules as you, instead become friends through the game or other stuff and involve them a little about the Rulemadness.


    In times like this where Hearthstone can on the fly change rules of a card, Analog games have it even harder and a lot more work to do, to change something.
    I trust Wizkids, that if a major issue is coming up you will in near time a Rulessheet or in the next set a change for it.
    good points, thanks!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkat67 View Post
    I've played Munchkins for a while now which is basically the same in the sense you have a set of rules (or rules of thumb) and the cards in the game can override that and so on. I have 3 sets we play with, that's hundreds of cards. But after a few times on the Munchkins forums you get a sense of the rules of thumb that can apply to any complicated situation and you can start figuring it out on your own. I've never really seen a situation on Munchkins where people are back and forth trying to decide how a card is played right.
    Clearly you've never been to the Munchkin Rules Forums :-P

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Clearly you've never been to the Munchkin Rules Forums :-P
    I have but just a couple of visits does the trick. :-P Dont get me wrong here, I love DM. GF just made me custom dice bags...now we're building some storage. We're just trying to get the "rules of thumb" down.

  6. #6
    The early days of Magic were FAR worse. Every time we got together to play (back in '94 or '95), games would stop for rules arguments. DM is way ahead of the curve, even if it's slower than many of us would like.

  7. #7
    I own all the munchkin sets and nearly all the expansions. Love the game, unlike this game, SteveJackson's company has at least 2 or 3 people that are dedicated to answering rule disputes on the forums. In this game the disputes are usually majority until told otherwise. Yes, questions come up, but Wizkids is getting better (slowly).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    I own all the munchkin sets and nearly all the expansions.
    First of all... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Love the game, unlike this game, SteveJackson's company has at least 2 or 3 people that are dedicated to answering rule disputes on the forums. In this game the disputes are usually majority until told otherwise. Yes, questions come up, but Wizkids is getting better (slowly).
    I guess that's the diff. It gets a little frustrating sometimes that you simply can't get the answer to DM anywhere online. Yeah they are strict on Munchkins too. I think I said Thanks one time and got reprimanded in a private message. Lol. There is no room for discussion. Just answer the question BAM and move on.
    Last edited by koolkat67; 10-26-2015 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cbone3 View Post
    The early days of Magic were FAR worse. Every time we got together to play (back in '94 or '95), games would stop for rules arguments. DM is way ahead of the curve, even if it's slower than many of us would like.
    I agree and you're right. I suppose the issue that I have with that argument is that designers have the mistakes of the past to look back upon, especially considering that Eric Lang is the lead on a long-running LCG (Call of Cthulhu) and Mike Elliot was a huge part of M:TG for a long time...

    Because once again, here we sit less than a month from a new set and much of War of Light still hasn't been ruled upon.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkat67 View Post
    First of all... WOW!


    I guess that's the diff. It gets a little frustrating sometimes that you simply can't get the answer to DM anywhere online. Yeah they are strict on Munchkins too. I think I said Thanks one time and got reprimanded in a private message. Lol. There is no room for discussion. Just answer the question BAM and move on.
    Thanks, I am the go to Munchkin guy in my group and the people who taught me, taught me with themed weeks and then blended (one party had all the sets and expansions at the time, Impossible had just come out, LOTS of cards).

    The slow answers from Wizkids is probably one of the most frustrating things about the game itself. This gets worse when you come across situations where in other games show you how a dispute can go either way. Just be patient and enjoy. That's what I am doing.

    Also, Nightmare before Christmas Munchkin...Awesome! You get an Oogie Boogie six sided die like from the movie.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I agree and you're right. I suppose the issue that I have with that argument is that designers have the mistakes of the past to look back upon, especially considering that Eric Lang is the lead on a long-running LCG (Call of Cthulhu) and Mike Elliot was a huge part of M:TG for a long time...

    Because once again, here we sit less than a month from a new set and much of War of Light still hasn't been ruled upon.
    Do they actually create any of these cards? I doubt it.

  12. #12

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkat67 View Post
    I have but just a couple of visits does the trick. :-P Dont get me wrong here, I love DM. GF just made me custom dice bags...now we're building some storage. We're just trying to get the "rules of thumb" down.
    I would agree that Munchkin has ridiculous rules issues, especially when you start blending all of the sets together. But yes, the rules forum has 1-2 guys including one of the current creators who answers questions pretty quickly.

    And as far as the game goes, I used to play it non stop, and now only occasionally. But I am a MiB with them still and do enjoy my collection-I got to meet and and have dinner with John Kovalic as part of a contest a few yrs ago at Origins and have an awesome custom drawing on my handmade Munchkin wooden box.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacBV View Post
    I would agree that Munchkin has ridiculous rules issues, especially when you start blending all of the sets together. But yes, the rules forum has 1-2 guys including one of the current creators who answers questions pretty quickly.

    And as far as the game goes, I used to play it non stop, and now only occasionally. But I am a MiB with them still and do enjoy my collection-I got to meet and and have dinner with John Kovalic as part of a contest a few hrs ago at Origins and have an awesome custom drawing on my handmade Munchkin wooden box.
    Right, I think even if its ridiculous and especially when it is, the key is one or two folks at the least that can answer questions quickly. Awesome with your dinner and stuff. I wanna see that Munchkin's box!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I agree and you're right. I suppose the issue that I have with that argument is that designers have the mistakes of the past to look back upon, especially considering that Eric Lang is the lead on a long-running LCG (Call of Cthulhu) and Mike Elliot was a huge part of M:TG for a long time...

    Because once again, here we sit less than a month from a new set and much of War of Light still hasn't been ruled upon.
    Heck, they still won't answer questions about UXM, and they've actually gotten worse with the rules forum (they used to at least answer a few questions per month...)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by IgwanaRob View Post
    Heck, they still won't answer questions about UXM, and they've actually gotten worse with the rules forum (they used to at least answer a few questions per month...)
    I honestly assumed it was a forgotten game when I first started a few months ago because I posted a question and still never heard back...along with one a few weeks ago. This site keeps me going.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I know for fact that they do
    I think the problem may be what happens to the card texts after they have been handed to WizKids.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    I think the problem may be what happens to the card texts after they have been handed to WizKids.
    Or possibly, what doesn't happen. Although it should realistically fall to both ends to have the cards proofread and checked. Either way, not only Wizkids but gaming companies in general might benefit from a little more transparency and accountability. This is not to say that some aren't of course, but sometimes it feels like the companies don't know that people actually play the games that they sell.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by IgwanaRob View Post
    Heck, they still won't answer questions about UXM, and they've actually gotten worse with the rules forum (they used to at least answer a few questions per month...)
    I think you are right. We get a few questions answered here and there but that is pretty much it. Thank goodness for Dice Anon.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Thank goodness for Dice Anon.
    Dice Anon???

    (I know who they are, but why thank goodness for them?)

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Dice Anon???

    (I know who they are, but why thank goodness for them?)
    They help with dice masters rulings and questions. Unlike wizkids they actually answer you even if they can't come up with an answer. The only thing I can think of that they haven't been able to rule on is the rare Warth. You can send a message or post on their facebook with a question and they will do their best to help. They taught me the Boolean Logic approach to disputes for the game (OR, AND, etc.). Whenever I have a question that I find too dicey, I post to them as well as wizkids.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    They help with dice masters rulings and questions. Unlike wizkids they actually answer you even if they can't come up with an answer. The only thing I can think of that they haven't been able to rule on is the rare Warth. You can send a message or post on their facebook with a question and they will do their best to help. They taught me the Boolean Logic approach to disputes for the game (OR, AND, etc.). Whenever I have a question that I find too dicey, I post to them as well as wizkids.
    Ok, I see.

    You do know that they're just players like anyone else that answers rules questions, right?

    And that they are just giving you their opinions?

    I mean, they're all great guys, but they have been wrong, just like everyone else, about things on multiple occasions.

  23. #23
    I'd encourage you to also use our rules forum discussion. There are some bright minds in there helping with questions that often come up. But whoever it is, remember that Wizkids is first followed by your store or event TO when it comes to final calls.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Ok, I see.

    You do know that they're just players like anyone else that answers rules questions, right?

    And that they are just giving you their opinions?

    I mean, they're all great guys, but they have been wrong, just like everyone else, about things on multiple occasions.
    I am well aware of that, as I am also aware that the general crowd takes their opinions on rule disputes second to wizkids. I have yet to see one of their rulings contradict something wizkids ruled on. It helps me because players and judges at my scene come to me for answers (even when I am playing) which sometimes people get a little butt hurt because I rule not in their favor (even though it is the correct or fair ruling). By getting a rule dispute resolved by dice anon, no one can cry favoritism or bias on my decisions.

    I do also check these forums for updated rules disputes and such. I usually use a few different sources (hence the majority) to rule fairly until wizkids decides to grace us with an answer.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    I am well aware of that, as I am also aware that the general crowd takes their opinions on rule disputes second to wizkids. I have yet to see one of their rulings contradict something wizkids ruled on. It helps me because players and judges at my scene come to me for answers (even when I am playing) which sometimes people get a little butt hurt because I rule not in their favor (even though it is the correct or fair ruling). By getting a rule dispute resolved by dice anon, no one can cry favoritism or bias on my decisions.

    I do also check these forums for updated rules disputes and such. I usually use a few different sources (hence the majority) to rule fairly until wizkids decides to grace us with an answer.
    Ah, I see.

    Apologies then.

    I got the impression that you perhaps considered them some kind of semi-official source of rulings, or back-door to the WizKids rules team.

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