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Thread: Pick Your Battles / Greater Magic Helmet

  1. #1

    Pick Your Battles / Greater Magic Helmet



    Is a character with a Magic Helmet Greater Gear equipped still prevented from blocking characters of a different energy type when my opponent uses Pick Your Battles?

  2. #2
    I say yes he can still block as you choose.
    Can't overrules can

  3. #3
    I would rule that the helmet does not have any effect on how your characters are blocked.

    To extrapolate, I see PYB as giving your characters an ability, not affecting your opponents characters with an ability.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    I would rule that the helmet does not have any effect on how your characters are blocked.

    To extrapolate, I see PYB as giving your characters an ability, not affecting your opponents characters with an ability.
    I'm sure you are right but I don't understand.
    PYB gives your character an ability which affects your opponent's character's blocking ability but is not a character ability that can be canceled?
    Is it a targeted vs non-targeted or something?

  5. #5
    PYB gives your characters an ability. It doesn't affect your opponents characters at all.

    "Can only be blocked by mask characters"
    Is an example of the ability that it gives.

    "Cannot be blocked" or "is unblockable" are two other types of abilities in this category. None of these abilities actually gives your opponents characters abilities, they all simply modify your characters.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    PYB gives your characters an ability. It doesn't affect your opponents characters at all.

    "Can only be blocked by mask characters"
    Is an example of the ability that it gives.

    "Cannot be blocked" or "is unblockable" are two other types of abilities in this category. None of these abilities actually gives your opponents characters abilities, they all simply modify your characters.
    I think I still don't understand why "gives your opponent's characters an ability even matters".
    The character has an ability(gained form an action, irrelevant) it affects the guy with the magic hat so it can be ignored.

    I think I'm going back to targeted versus not targeted.
    "Can only be blocked by mask characters" doesn't target but magic helmet only cancels targeted affects?
    Not sure though

  7. #7
    PYB doesn't effect your opponent's characters, therefore Helm doesn't have anything to negate. If your opponent plays PYB all of your opponent's characters get an ability, that ability potentially prevents the helmeted character from blocking because the ability on the character doesn't actually effect the character with the helmet.

    Edit: Try reading PYB from your opponent's point of view.

  8. #8
    "Each of your characters... ...and your Sidekicks..."

    I.e, it only affects the characters controlled by the player playing Pick Your Battles, not those controlled by their opponent.

  9. #9
    So, PYB grants each character an ability of "can only be blocked by characters with the same energy type". Two followup questions:
    1) Does this mean that ZMags would counteract PYB for all 3-or-less purchase price characters?
    2) Magic Helmet also lets the equipped character not be affected by character abilities. Wouldn't an unblockable character ability still be affecting the equipped character? Normally said equipped character would be able to block, but because of a character ability cannot; is that not being affected?

  10. #10
    Both are good questions.

    In my oppinion:
    1) yup, Magneto ruling is super strong against blocker manipulation and forced attack abilities. However, this is more my opinion than anything official.
    2) You are right that if a is right, then b would be too. However, the common thought is that having the ability "cannot be blocked" doesn't directly affect your opponents characters. If we find that this is not the case, then you would be correct on all counts. We don't have enough clarification to say for sure I don't believe, but the common assumption I have seen is that unblockable is not a direct effect on your opponents characters, but rather an effect your characters gain.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    unblockable is not a direct effect on your opponents characters, but rather an effect your characters gain.
    I can understand that unblockable is not a direct effect on your opponents characters. My area of confusion, though, is that Magic Helmet doesn't say it prevents direct effects, it says the equipped character cannot be affected by character abilities. Dictionary definition of "affected" is "influenced or touched by an external factor", and the "unblockable" ability is an external factor that is influencing the behavior of the equipped character, and thus shouldn't be allowed to happen.

  12. #12
    Imagine a mechanically identical ability to "unblockable" called "teleporting".

    Now do you see how it only affects the character that has the ability?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion0x17 View Post
    Imagine a mechanically identical ability to "unblockable" called "teleporting".

    Now do you see how it only affects the character that has the ability?
    Ah, but see I can play that game too. Imagine a mechanically identical ability to "unblockable" called "invisibility". Now do you see how it does affect the character with Magic Helmet equipped?

    The "unblockable" ability is affecting the behavior of the equipped character; I would normally block with said character, and am only not because of a character ability; that is literally the definition of "affected".

  14. #14
    Or better yet, if Unblockable was defined as "When declared as an attacker, after the global step, does it's attack damage directly to the opponent, going to used afterward."

    Sure, the game prevents your opponent from declaring a character as a blocker, but the difference isn't that I'm preventing your characters from doing something, it's that I'm not doing the thing that would normally allow you to declare blockers, which is "Declare a blockable attacker"

    I guess a better way to look at it is, it's not a characters right to be able to block that is being removed, it is an attackers weakness of being able to be blocked that is removed. After all, declaring someone as an attacker, grants them that weakness normally, and being unblockable doesn't

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Or better yet, if Unblockable was defined as "When declared as an attacker, after the global step, does it's attack damage directly to the opponent, going to used afterward."
    The problem is that Unblockable isn't defined that way; your character is still attacking, not dealing direct non-combat damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    I guess a better way to look at it is, it's not a characters right to be able to block that is being removed, it is an attackers weakness of being able to be blocked that is removed. After all, declaring someone as an attacker, grants them that weakness normally, and being unblockable doesn't
    I can see that, but even in that case (that the attacker's weakness is being removed) it still affects my equipped character, and Magic Helmet says a character ability can't affect my character. It doesn't say that it can't have it's rights taken away, nor that it can't have effects applied to it; it cannot be affected.

    To be clear, I am not having problems understanding the positions you both are taking; I just don't see how that position follows from what is printed on the card.

  16. #16
    What we are specifically saying, is that PYB has no effect on your character. It only affects our characters. Your helmet is protecting your character, but it can't protect you from something that isn't Affecting that character. Our characters are being given an ability, but that ability only affects them. When they attack, they are attacking down the Mask or shield or Sidekick corridors. You as the opposing player are limited in which characters you can place in those corridors, but your characters aren't being affected. They aren't being limited, you the player are, in how you can assign them.

    In short, your magic helmet doesn't protect your characters from things that don't affect them, just like it wouldn't protect your characters from my characters gaining +4 attack.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    In short, your magic helmet doesn't protect your characters from things that don't affect them, just like it wouldn't protect your characters from my characters gaining +4 attack.
    I was struggling with the definition of affect too. But the +4 attack ability example.
    It's almost like the active or passive buffs. Magic helmet protects you from abilities that call out a character but but not a passive aura, if you will.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dwilhelmi View Post
    I can understand that unblockable is not a direct effect on your opponents characters. My area of confusion, though, is that Magic Helmet doesn't say it prevents direct effects, it says the equipped character cannot be affected by character abilities. Dictionary definition of "affected" is "influenced or touched by an external factor", and the "unblockable" ability is an external factor that is influencing the behavior of the equipped character, and thus shouldn't be allowed to happen.
    By this logic you're suggesting that a Magic Helmeted character would be able to block unblockable Thanos, unblockable Angel, unblockable Namor, et al. Would you really make that argument?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    By this logic you're suggesting that a Magic Helmeted character would be able to block unblockable Thanos, unblockable Angel, unblockable Namor, et al. Would you really make that argument?
    Normally, yes, the helmet would suggest that; however, the rules specifically state that "can't and cannot" overrule other cards. These are some of the few absolutes in the game. Though considering that you have to buy the character and helmet, roll both, pay any fielding costs, and equip the helmet when you are allowed to do so; it wouldn't surprise me if wizkids stated that the helmet can override the above mentioned abilities. Afterall, that is a lot to set up and roll correctly to pull off.

  21. #21
    I'm not sure there is a ruling that specifies the difference, however, I think you are in the minority on how these two abilities interact. Be sure to check with your TO about how that works before playing competitively. Hopefully we will get a ruling that locks this in one way or the other.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    What we are specifically saying, is that PYB has no effect on your character. It only affects our characters. Your helmet is protecting your character, but it can't protect you from something that isn't Affecting that character. Our characters are being given an ability, but that ability only affects them. When they attack, they are attacking down the Mask or shield or Sidekick corridors. You as the opposing player are limited in which characters you can place in those corridors, but your characters aren't being affected. They aren't being limited, you the player are, in how you can assign them.

    In short, your magic helmet doesn't protect your characters from things that don't affect them, just like it wouldn't protect your characters from my characters gaining +4 attack.
    I understand that, but I think where we differ is on whether "effect" = "affect", and I don't think that they are. Effect is defined as "a change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause", and I think we can both agree that your character having the unblockable ability does not change my equipped character. However, this is different from "affected", which is defined as "influenced or touched by an external factor". My equipped character is not given an effect, but his behavior is affected by your character ability. Magic Helmet says that my equipped character can't be affected by a character ability.

    This is still consistent with the Overcrush ruling, because whether or not the damage rolled over to the player does not influence or change in any way the equipped character; so even if my interpretation were correct, overcrush would still roll over just fine.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    By this logic you're suggesting that a Magic Helmeted character would be able to block unblockable Thanos, unblockable Angel, unblockable Namor, et al. Would you really make that argument?
    Yes, I am suggesting that. Thanos's "unblockable" character ability affects the behavior of my character equipped with Magic Helmet, which prevents any character ability that affects the equipped character; so I would think that a Magic Helmet'ed character could block characters with the "unblockable" character ability.

  24. #24
    @dwilhelmi ,you're getting too tied up in the technical definition of "affected".

  25. #25

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