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Thread: Lantern Ring + Breath Weapon interation. What's your call?

  1. #1

    Lantern Ring + Breath Weapon interation. What's your call?

    Hello,

    Ran into an interested scenario last night and I wanted to know how others would have ruled.

    Environment:

    You have one Red Dragon: Epic Dragon (level 1, 5A 5D) in the field as well as one Lantern Ring: Limited Only By Imagination.
    Breath Weapon 3 (pay 3 to deal 3 damage to your opponent and all his creatures)
    While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect.

    Global: Once per turn pay bolt. When you purchase your next action die this turn, it costs 2 less (minimum 1) and you deal 1 damage to your opponent.
    Continuous: While active, when your characters attack, they deal 1 damage to target player for each energy symbol in your Reserve Pool that matches their type.
    You also have 4 lightning bolts in your reserve pool. You intend to attack but are not sure how the damage will be resolved.

    I see two current potential results. As I've seen before this is Limited Only By <my> Imagination.

    Also I currently use the weaker interpretation of the Lantern Ring where the number of characters is not relevent. This is not my question, and there are other threads for that debate. Additionally, my scenario only has one attacking bolt character.

    Result 1
    i) I attack with the Red Dragon and deal 4 damage to my opponent as a result of the active Lantern Ring.
    ii) I then use breath weapon and pay 3 energy (moved to the used pile), dealing another 3 damage to my opponent.
    iii) I finally deal combat damage equal to the attack stat.
    Total damage:
    4 + 3 + 5 = 12 (thanks pk2317)

    Result 2
    i) I attack with the Red Dragon and and pay 3 energy (moved to the used pile) in order to use breath weapon.
    ii) With only 1 bolt in my reserve pool, I deal 1 damage to my opponent as a result of the active Lantern Ring.
    iii) I finally deal combat damage equal to the attack stat on the die.
    Total damage:
    3 + 1 + 5 = 9

    The real question is does the breath weapon payment process before the Lantern Ring? Or after?
    Last edited by fun4willis; 11-04-2015 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #2
    I would say since they are both "while attacking" effects you would choose the order and pick the first option.

    Edit: 4+3+5=12

  3. #3
    You get to choose. Anytime you have two effects that resolve simultaneously, you choose how to resolve them.

  4. #4
    Yep.

    Simultaneous effects controlled by same player = player chooses order of resolution.

  5. #5
    I understand that simultaneous effects controlled by same player = player chooses order of resolution and with everyone in agreement I will use the 'Judge Guidance - Rule of Reasonableness' to rule this going forward.

    My initial thought was that the energy cannot exist in two places at once. It could not be moved to the used pile to pay for the breath weapon as well as exist within the reserve pool to be counted. Think of one hand sliding the Red Dragon forward to the Attack zone, while the other hand is placing the Breath weapon cost in the used pile. This is predicated on my understanding of breath weapon that it should be played "I'm attacking with Breath Weapon" as opposed to "I'm attacking...and now I am using breath weapon". At this point in time I agree the player can decide whether to deal the Lantern Ring or Breath weapon damage first.

    I realize I am being overly technical and dangerously close to or even in the "2-3 would try to stretch the rules for their own advantage" area.

    Within this post I am referencing the following post from the Dice Masters rules team:
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...d772006fb7b7b7

  6. #6
    I think it's more "here are all my attackers" followed by "I'm resolving all my attacking abilities now in this order".

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    I think it's more "here are all my attackers" followed by "I'm resolving all my attacking abilities now in this order".
    This seems like a super easy, no non-sense way to explain the process. Thanks for the quick response.

    By the way, Lantern Ring and Breath Weapon together are gross!!!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    I think it's more "here are all my attackers" followed by "I'm resolving all my attacking abilities now in this order".
    This is pretty much it.

    1.) Declare all Attackers (Beholder first in the case of his ability)
    2.) Resolve all when attack abilities in the order you choose (beholder goes first if he is involved)
    3.) Blockers are declared
    4.) Resolve all when blocking abilities
    5.) Global and Action phase
    6.) Assign Combat Damage
    7.) Cleanup

    Always keep this in mind and most attack step issues can be resolved. Key points, as mentioned by others, the active player chooses the order of his character abilities. The active player decides how his damage is split with multiple blockers.

    Nice combo with the Lantern Ring, hadn't thought of pairing it with Dragons yet.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Thanks for reminding me because this too came up. I had recalled that there was a ruling but just now found it.

    With respect to Continuous actions, as you stated, such actions are deemed “Used” when they are placed into the field. Thus it is the moment when that die is placed into the field that the player may (a) pay 1 energy and (b), if the player pays the 1 energy, the action die would immediately move to that player’s Prep Area.

    -The Dice Masters Rules Team
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...=action#p17936

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by duroyprofundo View Post
    That combo got me thinking of a related question:
    When the Lantern Ring ability triggers, could that be considered using an action die effect?

    I know that, normally, an action die is only "used" if it's moved from the reserve pool for it's ability. It's the inclusion of the word "effect" in the Red Dragon text that caught my eye.
    Yea, with that wording the Red Dragon ability can get around Jinzo while a Beholder would not. As the Beholder ability in question says to use the BAC as if you had rolled them and got a non burst face.

  12. #12
    EDIT: NEVERMIND, I guess it is a "when attacks" ability...

    http://dm.retrobox.eu/?search&text=assigns
    Last edited by SarkhanMad; 11-05-2015 at 05:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    I would say since they are both "while attacking" effects you would choose the order and pick the first option.

    Edit: 4+3+5=12
    "while attacking" is a static ability. not a triggered ability.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SarkhanMad View Post
    When this character’s dice are assigned to attack, you may pay X energy to deal X damage to your opponent and to each opposing character.

    I say it's result 2.
    The payment for breath weapon is not a simultaneous "when attacks ability".


    Does this resolve simultaneously with "when blocked" abilities?


    what about


    EDIT: NEVERMIND, I guess it is a "when attacks" ability...

    http://dm.retrobox.eu/?search&text=assigns
    Neither of these are either "when blocks" or "when attacks" abilities. They are "in order to attack/block" abilities. That is the cost is paid before attacking or blocking in order to allow attacking or blocking to occur.

    Effects that are "when X attacks/blocks" or "when assigned to attack/block" are triggered when characters are assigned to attacking/blocking and are resolved afterwards.

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