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Thread: Parallax Recycler

  1. #1

    Parallax Recycler

    So after a draft at a friendly local one of the guys noticed that with around four character dice and a little luck you could pretty much chain Parallax's global indefinitely. You spin down one double facing to re-roll all the other dice and with a 1/3rd chance per die to get another double energy odds are you'll be able to do it again with at least one of the other dice.

    The beauty part of this, the thing that takes it from a cute little trick to a game winner, is that Parallax lets you re roll dice that you have already fielded. So you can potentially field a dude, convert it back into energy, put it back into your reserve, roll it back into a character again, and refiled it. This gives you a fairly reliable way to exploit when fielded abilities, and with Fatality rolling around as a relatively cheap to buy and field character its just a way to end the game.

    This is the build I've been mucking around with;

    Actions
    Big Entrance
    Resurrection

    Core
    4x Fatality, bounty hunter
    4x S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent, need to know basis
    1x Parallax, Fear
    1x Prof X, RYM

    Utility
    2x Mera, mournful rage
    2x Venom, Angelo Fortunato
    4x Storm, African princess
    2x Mr. Fantastic, brilliant scientist

    Basic engine is dirt simple. You ramp up to one of those 'all the damn dice' turn threes with an active big e, spend 7 or so energy loading five bolt characters into the bag, at least two of them fatalities, and spend the remainder on additional prep or disruption. Turn 4 you roll your bolts and you just keep rolling them until someone falls over.

    Mera's there to mildly irritate formerly weapon 10, she also provides some hypothetical life gain but that hasn't been relevant yet. Storm and Mr. F are there to try and mitigate any opposing Hulk's, Constantine, or zombie Magnetai. Venom's there to revive out turn three if you think your in danger of loosing a race to aggro before you can go off.

  2. #2
    The problem is that both the UXM and BFF rulebooks *very* explicitly said that a die that had been partially spent as energy cannot be rerolled. It was specifically called out as a change to the original game rules.

    The newer rulebooks no longer have this explicit language, but Wizkids has never let us know that the rule was supposed to be changed back. So we have clear text saying we can't, and nothing saying we can.

  3. #3
    I still regretfully disagree, but once again it is a store ruling until we get a wizkids rulings so I guess that's none of my business.

    Weaker of the two does not apply since you're not talking about one of two ways to read the card, you're talking about referencing something outside of card text. The judge will rule it as they want for now.

    Honestly the best option right now is to not use it at a tournament until we get an answer.

  4. #4
    I hate to be a guy that encourages people to do things that go against the rules, but I agree.

    If it isn't explicitly stated in the newer rulebooks, then there is no ruling. Past rulebooks are irrelevant at this point if they don't constantly update them with the new rulings. So if they don't either come out with an online set of rules that they keep constantly updated or at least keep the rulebooks up to date, we can only go by the most current rulebook. Which, as was said, doesn't explicitly state this.

    Just trying to play Devil's advocate over here, but your argument can be used against you. You say that they never let us know the rule was supposed to be changed back. But they also never said the rule stuck around. Especially considering the newest rulebook doesn't state how to treat dice in this situation. They can't expect somebody who bought the newest set to know about that unless it's written in every rulebook since then. Which would take a single sentence to write. 'Characters that rolled double energy and have been partially spent cannot be rerolled.' It's unfair of them to think everybody should know that without explicitly stating it every time. Therefore we can only include that they meant to get rid of that ruling.

    So I have to agree with Stormy about his last point. The best thing to do is take it to a tournament and FORCE them to make a decision on the matter. Make them see that we need constantly updated rules and rulings on specific cards. It's not enough to just ask online and hope something is found for it. We have to make them regulate their own game. And if they won't do it, then synergies like this need to continue getting abused.



    Now, as to the actual team, I already run Parallax in the PyroManticore team. So if we run under the assumption that you can reroll anything with Parallax, you can not only kill them on their turn, but potentially just go off on turn 4 after fielding a Manticore and rolling four Agent of SHIELD dice as well as any other SK dice you have in prep area from PxG. Which would obviously suck for them because there's nothing they can do to interrupt that due to having no instant speed mechanics in the game.

    I would never want to actually play it that way though due to the fact that it just seems so ridiculously broken. Like this post says, you actually have a rather large potential to just roll everything and never stop. Utilizing anything like Fatality or Manticore on top of it just ruins the fun of the game. Personal ruling, I don't believe you should be able to reroll dice that have been partially spent either.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    The problem is that both the UXM and BFF rulebooks *very* explicitly said that a die that had been partially spent as energy cannot be rerolled. It was specifically called out as a change to the original game rules.

    The newer rulebooks no longer have this explicit language, but Wizkids has never let us know that the rule was supposed to be changed back. So we have clear text saying we can't, and nothing saying we can.
    Could you please point me too this reference?
    Thanks!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by fun4willis View Post
    Could you please point me too this reference?
    Thanks!
    Page 20 of the UXM rulebook, very last line on the page.

  7. #7
    Bring it to your LGS and talk to your tournament organizer(s) about how they would rule it. Once again, until wizkids rules it it is up to your local judge.

  8. #8
    A very interesting way to use Parallax (his common has the same global) to abuse Fatality's ability. Granted, this cannot be an indefinite engine. Each time you spend an energy to use Parallax's global, you lose an energy to the Out of Play zone. You could win the game during the main step, assuming you got at least 3 bolt energy and a couple of level 1 fatalities. Use excess energy to keep rerolling them and refielding them. You get level 2 or 3 each time and you may come short on lethal, but still an impressive hidden combo.

    Easy counter's include Captain America + Iron Fist, Captain America by himself could outlast your available energy, Common lantern Battery with 3 bolts in reserve, Millennium Puzzle, or other instant removals. Of course, the unprepared will not fare well.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    A very interesting way to use Parallax (his common has the same global) to abuse Fatality's ability. Granted, this cannot be an indefinite engine. Each time you spend an energy to use Parallax's global, you lose an energy to the Out of Play zone. You could win the game during the main step, assuming you got at least 3 bolt energy and a couple of level 1 fatalities. Use excess energy to keep rerolling them and refielding them. You get level 2 or 3 each time and you may come short on lethal, but still an impressive hidden combo.

    Easy counter's include Captain America + Iron Fist, Captain America by himself could outlast your available energy, Common lantern Battery with 3 bolts in reserve, Millennium Puzzle, or other instant removals. Of course, the unprepared will not fare well.
    Yeah it could be super potent. Huge thing with instant removals like millennium puzzle or Grundy Blue eyes is your opponent has to pass priority for you to have that opportunity, if they wanted to they could kill you before you had a chance to use either of those if it's on their turn during the main step.

  10. #10
    I think that's probably one of my least favourite parts of this game. There is no such thing as 'The Stack' like there is in Magic. There are no instant speed abilities unless they're some kind of triggered effects or in response effects like Iron Fist or Human Paladin. Something like that. Other than that, there's literally nothing you can do. You can have globals to use, but you can't use them until the other player has passed priority. Which, in the case of a team like this, or the PyroManticore team, you never pass priority. You don't HAVE to pass priority. You can just keep taking actions until you want to pass priority. Unless my understanding of the rules is incorrect. Which is why things like Millennium Puzzle can't be used at 'instant' speed. Only when you have priority.

    But yeah, it's a huge thing about abusing the way priority in this game works. I understand why it is the way it is, but it makes for, what feels like, a very limited amount of interaction when things like this come up.

    I'm going to keep comparing the two teams because of how similarly they work, but much like the Pyro deck there's only so much you can do to stop it. Such as if you roll a Millennium Puzzle on your turn and manage to field it, you can use it before you pass priority to them and they won't get to go off. Or a Prismatic Spray.

    On the other hand, they can just main phase roll everything and not even care about what you plan on doing because they never have to pass priority.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Frubzors View Post
    I think that's probably one of my least favourite parts of this game. There is no such thing as 'The Stack' like there is in Magic. There are no instant speed abilities unless they're some kind of triggered effects or in response effects like Iron Fist or Human Paladin. Something like that. Other than that, there's literally nothing you can do. You can have globals to use, but you can't use them until the other player has passed priority. Which, in the case of a team like this, or the PyroManticore team, you never pass priority. You don't HAVE to pass priority. You can just keep taking actions until you want to pass priority. Unless my understanding of the rules is incorrect. Which is why things like Millennium Puzzle can't be used at 'instant' speed. Only when you have priority.

    But yeah, it's a huge thing about abusing the way priority in this game works. I understand why it is the way it is, but it makes for, what feels like, a very limited amount of interaction when things like this come up.

    I'm going to keep comparing the two teams because of how similarly they work, but much like the Pyro deck there's only so much you can do to stop it. Such as if you roll a Millennium Puzzle on your turn and manage to field it, you can use it before you pass priority to them and they won't get to go off. Or a Prismatic Spray.

    On the other hand, they can just main phase roll everything and not even care about what you plan on doing because they never have to pass priority.
    I completely agree. They need to start adding more globals that can be used in response to actions and actually happen before passing priority. Something like pay MM, cancel target global or action die effect. Instant speed text blanking would also solve this.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    They need to start adding more globals that can be used in response to actions and actually happen before passing priority. Something like pay MM, cancel target global or action die effect. Instant speed text blanking would also solve this.
    So I'll just start this out by saying that I've been playing Magic for years. Like...quite a while now. Which means I'm super used to the stack and how instants work and I'm just so used to doing things in response to the other guy playing a spell or something.

    Pretty much I thought that this game and spells worked along a similar basis. I wanted Puzzle and Spray in everything because I thought you could seriously just leave them in your Reserve/Field until you needed them and then you could do something like Prismatic Spray on your opponents turn to prevent them from doing something like using BEWD or some such shenanigans. Or things like Puzzling a character in response to them fielding a character that would cause some kind of synergy to happen that I wouldn't otherwise be able to stop. Not sure what off the top of my head, I just know I was worried about those things happening.

    Obviously this is not how it works, but it just made sense to me considering my background. Trying to get used to a game that doesn't utilize the stack is actually a bit of a burden due to how ingrained it is in to my thinking process and how I approach a situation. I have a bit of time with Hearthstone as well though, so at least we actual have a chance to play things during another player's turn.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Stormyknight;32073]Yeah it could be super potent. Huge thing with instant removals like millennium puzzle or Grundy Blue eyes is your opponent has to pass priority for you to have that opportunity, if they wanted to they could kill you before you had a chance to use either of those if it's on their turn during the main step.[/QUOT

    Under Tournament rules, yes, though most of the time players will allow interruptions. This is why in a tournament setting, I would use Captain America + Iron Fist or the Lantern battery.

  14. #14
    Partially spent dice can't be re-rolled.

    Wizkids rules forum. Question about Parallax Global and spent energy
    "You still may not reroll partially spent energy. This will be included in future rulebooks.
    -The Dice Masters Rules Team"

    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...+energy#p20606

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    I still regretfully disagree, but once again it is a store ruling until we get a wizkids rulings so I guess that's none of my business.

    Weaker of the two does not apply since you're not talking about one of two ways to read the card, you're talking about referencing something outside of card text. The judge will rule it as they want for now.

    Honestly the best option right now is to not use it at a tournament until we get an answer.
    Actually, they have ruled on this on the forums, here: http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=9139 you can't re-roll spent energy dice.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    I still regretfully disagree, but once again it is a store ruling until we get a wizkids rulings so I guess that's none of my business.

    Weaker of the two does not apply since you're not talking about one of two ways to read the card, you're talking about referencing something outside of card text. The judge will rule it as they want for now.

    Honestly the best option right now is to not use it at a tournament until we get an answer.

    Check the rules forum. There is ruling and you CANNOT reroll partially spent die

  17. #17

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