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Thread: Green Goblin: Goblin Grandmaster (ASM 89 - Uncommon)

  1. #1

    Green Goblin: Goblin Grandmaster (ASM 89 - Uncommon)

    89
    Goblin Grandmaster
    Cost: 3
    Villains
    You may sacrifice another fielded character to field Green Goblin for free or spin him up 1 level.
    Keywords: "Sacrifice"
    Sacrifice: Sacrificed characters are moved from the Field Zone to the Used Pile (often as a cost or penalty).
    While I think the intent is clear, especially comparing it to the other versions, the card doesn't actually say that it has to be one of your fielded characters...

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Keywords: "Sacrifice"


    While I think the intent is clear, especially comparing it to the other versions, the card doesn't actually say that it has to be one of your fielded characters...
    >.< Can we just pretend that it does? lol

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Keywords: "Sacrifice"


    While I think the intent is clear, especially comparing it to the other versions, the card doesn't actually say that it has to be one of your fielded characters...
    Removing your opponents characters is neither a cost nor a penalty, as BEWD and WGirl was already ruled to not allow this type of interaction, I would (and any TO would likely as well) rules this as only one of your fielded characters.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Keywords: "Sacrifice"


    While I think the intent is clear, especially comparing it to the other versions, the card doesn't actually say that it has to be one of your fielded characters...
    LOL. Yeah. Nice.

    Definitely one it would be nice to have WizKids clarify just help prevent arguments, but also one that any Judge or TO should rule as not being able to target opposing dice.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    the card doesn't actually say that it has to be one of your fielded characters...
    oops

  7. #7
    It's paying a cost and you cannot target your opponents characters to pay a cost so there is no need for a ruling. It's like in magic, Click image for larger version. 

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    Nowhere does it say it has to be one of your creatures, but when paying for a cost unless otherwise specified you must target your own characters to pay for a cost.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    So how is this different?

    It isn't, which means most people have been playing the Black Lanterns incorrectly, not that Green Goblin can pay a cost with opposing characters.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    It isn't, which means most people have been playing the Black Lanterns incorrectly, not that Green Goblin can pay a cost with opposing characters.
    I beg to differ, Black lantern abilities do not inherantly imply a cost. BEWD and Sacrifice specifically call out that they are a cost or penalty, where BLWW and other BL characters have abilities that do not trade one penalty for a benefit. Instead, they simply create reoccurring powerful effects that can hinder or benefit both players.

    The real issue with these effects is that the are so unambiguous, that their intent isn't conveyed well. Their lack of specificity is their strength though.

  11. #11
    The black lanterns abilities are spelled out as a "during your turn do X effect." Green goblin says do something in order to do another, implying a cost. The fact that you are trying to make this more difficult and try to make it into something it is not is ridiculous.

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  13. #13
    I would assume you could use it at any time you could use a global during either players turn. You can do the same thing with this card...


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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tathic View Post
    Iam still not sure when you can use his ability. Is it only when I field a Goblin? Can I field him for free and then sacrifice another character to spin him up?
    Can I spin him on my opppnents turn?

    Assume this game state: You have a character die in the field. You roll Green Goblin on his L2 face (Fielding Cost = 2).

    In the Main Step, your choices are:
    (1) Pay 2 energy, field Grn Gob at L2 and not initiate the Sacrifice effect.
    (2) Sacrifice your character die (I'm in the camp this ability does not apply to your opponent's fielded characters for the reasons previously cited) and field Grn Gob for free at L2.
    (3) Sacrifice your character die, spin Grn Gob up to L3 and pay 3 energy to field him. (ugh - worst choice)
    (4) Pay 2 energy and field Grn Gob at L2; Sacrifice your character die, then spin Grn Gob up to L3.

    That's how I see it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joepancreas View Post
    Okay, I have a question about this card. If we are at the end of the turn, after blockers are assigned, but before damage is dealt, can I sacrifice characters at that point? Say, sacrifice an unblocked sidekick and level him up instead of doing one damage?
    I would say you can. This Sacrifice effect can either (a) field Grn Gob for free, which means this can only be done in the Main Step, or (b) spin him up 1 level, which can be done at anytime after Grn Gob is in the field, as long as you have another fielded character to sacrifice.

  17. #17
    If you have enough characters in the field, I would think you can sacrifice one to field him for free, and then sacrifice another one to spin him up a level. Each use of his ability would require you to sacrifice a separate character, but I don't think it's limited to once per turn.

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  19. #19
    Is there anything that dicates the ability can't be used on the field. The way i read this card is that it's a sacrifice machine, allowing you to continue sacrificing characters after fielded. The card doesn't state a zone restriction. True it mentio s a choice to field for free, but one fieldes the choice becomes clear. So for each character sacrificed you can make the choice once. Right?

  20. #20
    You wouldn't be able to use his "spin up a level" ability until he is in the field. The only abilities able to be used while in the Prep Area are "Free to Field" abilities.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sewnwings View Post
    Is there anything that dicates the ability can't be used on the field. The way i read this card is that it's a sacrifice machine, allowing you to continue sacrificing characters after fielded. The card doesn't state a zone restriction. True it mentio s a choice to field for free, but one fieldes the choice becomes clear. So for each character sacrificed you can make the choice once. Right?
    When he is in your Reserve pool, you could use his ability to field him for free.
    When he is in the field you am use his ability to spin him from 1-2 or 2-3, but once level three, he cannot be spun up, and costs can't be paid for no effect. Thus, you can't keep sacrificing characters to say, trigger Vulture, other than in these 3 instances.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    It's paying a cost and you cannot target your opponents characters to pay a cost so there is no need for a ruling. It's like in magic,

    Nowhere does it say it has to be one of your creatures, but when paying for a cost unless otherwise specified you must target your own characters to pay for a cost.
    Not being able to sacrifice opponent's creatures in Magic is not because it is a part of the cost here, but basically straight from the definition of sacrifice:
    701.14a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its ownerís graveyard. A player canít sacrifice something that isnít a permanent, or something thatís a permanent he or she doesnít control. Sacrificing a permanent doesnít destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction canít affect this action.
    So you cannot sacrifice creature you don't control even when it's a part of an effect (like Cruel Edict). Also, I think sacrifice in MTG does not target (not nit-picking, just showing how specific MTG rules are in comparison).

    I am not trying to argue that you would be able to use Green Goblin to sacrifice opponent's characters. The point is that WK really does little to proof their rule books. The DM designers surely all played MTG at some point and know the importance of "Comprehensive Rules" in it. But somehow while taking a mechanic straight from MTG they fail to add one important word from it (your) and instead add "(often as a cost or penalty)" which only causes confusion (by suggesting there are cases where it is not a cost or penalty).

  23. #23
    Assuming you could use it at any time you could use a global.

    Can i sacrifice an attacking character, to spin up 1 level Green Goblin to increase his A and D, in the Attack Zone (before assign damage)?

    Can i sacrifice a blocking character, engaged character, who i know is going to KO by combat damage?

    Im thinking both are correct.
    Last edited by bartok; 04-08-2016 at 03:53 AM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bartok View Post
    Assuming you could use it at any time you could use a global.

    Can i sacrifice an attacking character, to spin up 1 level Green Goblin to increase his A and D, in the Attack Zone (befere assign damage)?

    Can i sacrifice a blocking character, engaged character, who i know is going to KO by combat damage?

    Im thinking both are correct.
    Yes and yes, both are correct uses of Green Goblin.

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